Question for US Air and AWA Pilots

[Bubba Dog]

Anyway...If you are furloughed.....well don't expect anything. Plus, you do not have the GOD given right to have it. AND STOP WHINING !

When did God get involved? You don't get what you deserve in life, only what you negotiate. I expect the furloughees will be slotted in their respective percentiles other wise it will be a huge winfall to all the AW pilots when it comes to retirements.

I don't understand your E190 thread block thing. What are you talking about?

You need to log in and listen to the subjects relevant to your question, "prove it". I cannot give you the exact meeting. Maybe I will go back and see if I can find it again for you. It was mentioned several times by DP. And by the way where are the links concerning your 3 proposed mergers I requested?

I am not whining,just trying to carry on a normal discussion. You know point, counterpoint,etc.

 

[PHXFLYR]

When did God get involved? You don't get what you deserve in life, only what you negotiate. I expect the furloughees will be slotted in their respective percentiles other wise it will be a huge winfall to all the AW pilots when it comes to retirements.

I don't understand your E190 thread block thing. What are you talking about?

You need to log in and listen to the subjects relevant to your question, "prove it". I cannot give you the exact meeting. Maybe I will go back and see if I can find it again for you. It was mentioned several times by DP. And by the way where are the links concerning your 3 proposed mergers I requested?

I am not whining,just trying to carry on a normal discussion. You know point, counterpoint,etc.

I think Parker was quoted as saying that AWA sans merger (my personal preference,by the way) would have been in dire financial straights 12-16 months down the road with a possible CH 11 filing and no one willing to provide DIP financing if we did. I also think Parker is a BS Artist. I mean if ATA was able to get DIP financing and they are only half the size of what they once were, I think AWA would have found some willing investors stupid enough to invest here,too. I for one was willing to take that chance,rather than put up with all the merger related crap......but then,what do I know? according to Lear, I'm only a dumb "2 year F/O".....


PHXFLYR


Oh and by the way,another interesting Parker quote from the March 29 Brown Bag lunch at the CLT Training Center which I attend. USAir needed the 125 million dollar deal with Air Wisconsin because they didn't have enough cash on hand to stay in business until the Sept 29th closing date. Don't believe me? Acess the hub and play back the video for yourself..... PHXFLYR

 

[Bubba Dog]

First..... Bubba I do have access.... Thank you. Now, ...again PROVE IT please. Please show me the numbers that AWA was entering Chapter 11 7.....like U was.

Second....there is some E190 block thing being proposed....4 U pilots 4 AWA pilots.... second block same thing. NO seniority issues affected. They will rotate scheduling rights...?? huh? ( Me too) .

OK here it is

Under Crew News on the Hub:

1. 2006 Town Halls: PHX May 22,2006, subtopic Flight Attendant contract.

2. 2006Town Halls: PHX RES,competitive advantage.

3. Under Crew news: PHX Pilots Video 1-24-06 at the 37 minute point.

OK, there you go. I can not prove it with numbers, I am only referencing to what Doug Parker said at those meetings.

 

[Bubba Dog]

I think Parker was quoted as saying that AWA sans merger (my personal preference,by the way) would have been in dire financial straights 12-16 months down the road with a possible CH 11 filing and no one willing to provide DIP financing if we did. I also think Parker is a BS Artist. I mean if ATA was able to get DIP financing and they are only half the size of what they once were, I think AWA would have found some willing investors stupid enough to invest here,too. I for one was willing to take that chance,rather than put up with all the merger related crap......but then,what do I know? according to Lear, I'm only a dumb "2 year F/O".....


PHXFLYR


Oh and by the way,another interesting Parker quote from the March 29 Brown Bag lunch at the CLT Training Center which I attend. USAir needed the 125 million dollar deal with Air Wisconsin because they didn't have enough cash on hand to stay in business until the Sept 29th closing date. Don't believe me? Acess the hub and play back the video for yourself..... PHXFLYR

Yeah, I saw that,unbelievable a express carrier saved the day supposedly. I realize there is a lot BS floating around and a filter is definitely needed. The bottom line is both groups will be better of in the long run because of this merger. Let the arbitrator's do their jobs and just move on from there.

 

[captainjack]

When did God get involved? You don't get what you deserve in life, only what you negotiate. I expect the furloughees will be slotted in their respective percentiles other wise it will be a huge winfall to all the AW pilots when it comes to retirements.

Bubba Dog,

I think you need to read the ALPA Administrative Manual Page 6, paragraph D.

I'll save you some time and post it here:

d: Maintain or improve pre-merger pilot status


Q. What was the pre-merger status of the AAA furloughees?
A. Furloughed (simple terms - out of work).

Q. What was the pre-merger status of the last pilot on the AWA list?
A. Flying the line (simple term - working).

Q. What case history do you have that an arbitrator will ignore this tenent of ALPA merger policy and "slot" the furloughees?
A. None

The AAA MEC even communicated this to their pilots in updates last fall. They said that they would fight for the furloughees (as they should because they have an obligation to represent their pilots) but case history wasn't on their side.

Arbitrators deal with facts not conjecture. They also don't consider possible future events. AAA was in bankruptcy and liquidation was going to happen on October 1st. This wasn't a possible future event but fact. Parker can say all he wants about a future BK filing by AWA, but at the time of the merger, AWA was making money and wasn't even in Chapter 11. Nicolau will toss the BK argument if the east guys try to make it as it is irrelevant because it is a future event that can't be proved.

 

[BeCareful!]

Well I see we've gotten the windfall seekers all spooled up again. 1500 numbers to pad Dave's career, all on the backs of the pilots who took the ultimate career sacrifice to save US Airways.

You guys should hire Ann Coulter to champion your cause; she's good at furthering the kind of inflammatory arguments you guys are using to paint the US Air furloughee like they're aviation nincompoops who should sit back quietly and go behind Dave on the list. Dave was a regional boy until a year ago; he should not have a 1500 pilot furlough cushion of seasoned professionals who were at the major airlines many, many years before him.

Anyone who thinks little, struggling AWA somehow saved US Airways is inane. It was financed by the outside for the benefit of all: employees, customers, and taxpayers.

 

[PHXFLYR]

Yeah, I saw that,unbelievable a express carrier saved the day supposedly. I realize there is a lot BS floating around and a filter is definitely needed. The bottom line is both groups will be better of in the long run because of this merger. Let the arbitrator's do their jobs and just move on from there.

Sort of like the "tail waggin'the dog....",isn't it? But,hey;whatever works. I agree. Both groups will be better off in the long run. We all have the opportunity to put something together that could be a force to be reckoned with in an industry that is very competitive .Too bad we'll all caught up in our own retoric and vitrol to realize this.And once the arbitrator comes up with a new senority list, no one will be happy. As for the BS filter, its been installed long ago.(amazing how many out there both East and West choose to get all spooled up on rumors rather than calling their Reps to find out "the rest of the story" ....(sigh )). Now if we can all just remember the fight isn't between us, its with management and the other airlines that we compete with,we'll all be the better for it.


PHXFLYR

 

[PHXFLYR]

Well I see we've gotten the windfall seekers all spooled up again. 1500 numbers to pad Dave's career, all on the backs of the pilots who took the ultimate career sacrifice to save US Airways.

You guys should hire Ann Coulter to champion your cause; she's good at furthering the kind of inflammatory arguments you guys are using to paint the US Air furloughee like they're aviation nincompoops who should sit back quietly and go behind Dave on the list. Dave was a regional boy until a year ago; he should not have a 1500 pilot furlough cushion of seasoned professionals who were at the major airlines many, many years before him.

Anyone who thinks little, struggling AWA somehow saved US Airways is inane. It was financed by the outside for the benefit of all: employees, customers, and taxpayers.

Maybe so. But apparently these investors did not want to risk their money in USAir as it existed prior to the merger. Nor did they have any faith in your 'Management" (?) team. They saw what Parker did turning AWA around the last several years and was hoping he would jump ship and try to turn USAir around (yeah,....right) When he balked, they sweetened the pot. Hence ,the merger. Whether you like it, or whether you don't (and I don't);it's here to stay. And spare us "Westies" the "windfall" rhetoric,will you please? It's past the point of getting old.

PHXFLYR

 

[Bubba Dog]

Bubba Dog,

I think you need to read the ALPA Administrative Manual Page 6, paragraph D.

I'll save you some time and post it here:

d: Maintain or improve pre-merger pilot status


Q. What was the pre-merger status of the AAA furloughees?
A. Furloughed (simple terms - out of work).

Q. What was the pre-merger status of the last pilot on the AWA list?
A. Flying the line (simple term - working).

Q. What case history do you have that an arbitrator will ignore this tenent of ALPA merger policy and "slot" the furloughees?
A. None

The AAA MEC even communicated this to their pilots in updates last fall. They said that they would fight for the furloughees (as they should because they have an obligation to represent their pilots) but case history wasn't on their side.

Arbitrators deal with facts not conjecture. They also don't consider possible future events. AAA was in bankruptcy and liquidation was going to happen on October 1st. This wasn't a possible future event but fact. Parker can say all he wants about a future BK filing by AWA, but at the time of the merger, AWA was making money and wasn't even in Chapter 11. Nicolau will toss the BK argument if the east guys try to make it as it is irrelevant because it is a future event that can't be proved.

Plain and simple, no winfalls(i.e.retirements), which is also in the ALPA merger policy. It will be up to the arbitraitor!

 

[FreightNazi]

I have a friend of mine at AWA but is furloughed from US and still has his US seniority number. How is it going to work for him? Is he going to be able to pick which number (AWA or US) that will give his best seniority or will he be stuck with his AWA number since that is where he currently works?