Question for US Air and AWA Pilots

[PHXFLYR]

hey, how about you f@#$ off. O where was it you came from, MESA? And you have what, something like 2 years sen at AWA - OK there MR. Old Grizzled Expert - whatever.

You know, I'd tell you where I came from,but given your past experience with them, I don't think you'd like the answer.....


PHXFLYR

 

[steveg]

How about some fact checking here.

The CEL pilots are not now, and have never been considered mainline pilots. They were not on the list until after the merger, a blatant attempt by AAA pilots to pad the list and try to further divide the pie and help their own cause in the seniority argument. There is nothing in any contract giving the CEL pilots (except those originally furloughed by AAA) the chance or right to ever bid into a AAA mainline airplane, PERIOD.

Unfortuantely, being on a certificate does not equate being on a seniority list. This is proven by case law and past precedent. The CEL carriers were a DIFFERENT airline.

Nothing against the pilots, I'd love to see them get a flow through agreement after all this is said and done. But to try and include them in the seniority arbitration is an offensive attempt by the AAA mainline pilots to help out their own cause.

Please let's not start the 2 year AWA wonder argument. I've been here 2 years, and most in my seniority have been around the block a few times.

 

[Crzipilot]

Stevg,

Actually you are wrong. The same document that allowed them to flow up to MDA, gave them access / the chance / and the right to bid into a AAA mainline airplane. Same document, and I think 1 or 2 paragraphs (maybe even the same paragraph) that allowed them to goto MDA. So uhmmm...before you start talking case law and past precedent. You better check the current precendent. PERIOD

Oh and before you ask for proof etc etc...this issue has been beaten more than a dead horse, search around here and you'll see all the cut and pastes that state such, quoted from such agreements. In fact, as it stands now, ANY CEL pilot has the right to bid into a vacancy at US before any hiring off the street. That was the deal for j4j....

 

[steveg]

They didn't flow to MDA, they left previous jobs and went to work for MDA as newhires. I say it again, they were never allowed to bid AAA mainline. Not starting a p'ssing match, like I said, I have nothing against them and think a flow through would be a great idea. Also, AAA sold the MDA operation, as in it is gone.

We obviously won't agree on this and probably many other issues, that's why Arbitrators are coming ino the fold. I read through this thread though, and it seemed as if it was common knowledge that the CEL guys were going to get a spot on the new list, and this just isn't true. Much like the furlough argument, you think they deserve a spot, other's see them as not being on the property currently working for the NEW company. If the AAA mainline guys want to fight for their spot, we'll see. I stand by my comment that it was just a tactic to get better seniority for the active active mainline guys.

 

[LearLove]

I'm not jealou,s not matter how that arbitarator decides Lear will be junior to me. I'm covered both ways.
I was just wondering how he came to his asertations about mainline or non mainlie pilots.

where the he11 do you see me spouting off about being a "mainline" guy? I was furloughed from MDA, offered a j4j and my name appears on the bottom of the U APL list and U senority list. That is how it worked out in the end. What, do think I'm makeing this up or something?

Anyway if you look back a my first thread on this post I was just commenting on how our "fab" new management (mixed with some old of course) managed to take a fine operating website and turn it into a slower running and harder site to purchase our product. Log on for yourself and see.

 

[LearLove]

most of you guys here on this thread are posting stuff thats way wrong because you don't understand the situation both now and in the past. Get your facts inline before you start accusing people - especially when thoes people had no say in the situation in the first place.

 

[abefly]

Not my fight but it was my understanding that the MDA pilots were placed on the list by the U MEC to try to make it seem like they had more pilots if it was a relative senority merger. Then the active U guys would come out better in the long run. But that doesn't mean thats what the combined list will have on it. Just my .02

 

[Itsallsogood]

Abe you are correct. Crizi and Lear are ...well.... not so correct. Just some facts. Nobody on the East Merger committee has negoitiated with the words DOH. There are 3 categories being discussed. 1) Active pilots actually flying the line. Aprox. 2400 U and 1800 AWA. 2) Active pilots out on.....medical, personal leave etc. 3) Furloughed pilots from the list of the snap shot date....who knows.....April or Sept. 2005. Both sides agree, may argue,but agree.... the furloughees do not bring anything to the merger. An active AWA pilot cannot call up a U furloughee to fly his (the AWA pilot's) trip. The negotiations are then, where to position the Active pilots on a list and where do the inactive ones get pin-pointed into. The furloughees argue that they should benefit from the attrition, however, the East had 4 independent investment bankers ALL tell them that USAirways was going out of business. FACT. The lowest pilot on the U list has 18 years. When he was hired (18 years ago) he was on the bottom of that same list. Meaning? NO CARRER EXPECTATION. AWA was hiring.. upgrading (80 months to upgrade) with new planes arriving. And AWA was profiting. Meaning? Better carrer expectations. There is a ton of info (facts) if you just call up the reps. Keep in touch with them. Good luck to us all.

 

[Bubba Dog]

No argument- By Doug Parker's own admission in public several times(look on the Hub or Compass under crew communications) AW would have been in bankruptcy by now with many folks already furloughed with little hope of cash infusion from anyone because AW has lost it's past competitive edge with lower labor costs since everyone has come down to AW's level since 9/11. Only hope DP said in that scenerio was a merger but no one has any money or desire to pick up AW in these times because AW did not offer much,just two low capacity hubs with a lot of meaningful competition from SW and others and all AW relied on was low yielding leisure traffic. USAir had some great assets and a lot of high yield business traffic that AW was lacking, not to even mention the international presence. So don't be so quick to kill the old USAir, AW was going to be in very bad shape very soon also. We both saved each other! If the furloughs had not happened at USAir there would be no USairways today and because of that fact the furloughees gave the most(100%pay cut) and brought the most to the merger. There will be a huge winfall by the AW group due to USAir retirements and this is why the furloughees must be included fairly in this integration and I don't mean a staple job.

I also believe we have to work together as a team to make this a very successful company.

 

[Itsallsogood]

OK Prove it. You can not. And ANY investment can not either. Fact. AWA was very healthy. ATA buyout prior will prove that. At the time $$$$ was being offered to the AWA management for 3 possible buyouts. ATA, Hawaiian and (too much stock value) Air Tran. The money was there for AWA. Are you a Kool Aid drinker? OR JUST WHEN IT BENIFITS YOU?