Question for Flex guys

[Praetorian]

With all seriousness, wondering how you guys feel about:

1. The fact that about eight (and the numbers are going up from what I gather) former FO management pilots are currently at the bottom of your seniority list, flying the Globals and getting paid more than pilots senior to them on your list.

and,

2. As a result of DW's recent offer, additional currently active FO pilots may be headed over to FX, will be stapled to the bottom of your seniority list and will for years - although pay frozen - subsequently be making more than many other pilots senior to them on your list.

 

[el raton]

Question 1....They're not at the bottom of our seniority list...so I really don't care.

Question2...I don't believe it's an issue for anyone except that they get to keep their seniority# at FO. If we do integrate, we could have FOs suddenly becoming senior captains. That may ruffle some feathers.

 

[asdf]

The only thing I know is the management pilot who took the job from Flexjet and I think a challenger captain both retained their Flexjet seniority number. I have not seen any options management pilots name on the Flexjet seniority list.

When the integration happens I think that is when folks will get irritated. What is irritating is that Option Pilots and any new hire for that matter can come over and probably get challenger 300 types and training but yet we have many lear First Officers that are not allowed to change aircraft. At Flexjet whatever fleet you where hired in as a First Officer is where you stay until upgrade. First Officer pay is the same regardless of aircraft.

If growth happens and there is upgrade and movement I really think the merger will go good and there will be minimal upset folks. But, if we start having 10-15 year first officers there will be some upset folks.

 

[luckydog]

Rumor is that the 12 or so Options pilots moving to Flex will all be in the Lear.

The only thing about the deal I find irritating is the retention of seniority at Flight Options, but since I'm not convinced there will ever be an SLI, I'm not too worked up over it.

 

[The Architect]

Not False

The Flight Options pilots that are flying the Globals are wearing Flexjet ID badges and are on the bottom of the Flexjet Seniority list.

I know TWA keeps saying that this is false information, but it is fact.

Ask DW. Ask JW. Ask JS at Flight Options. They told the IBT those pilots were on the bottom of the seniority list. And anyone that takes the recent offer will be right below them.

The Flight Options pilots, both line and management, have told other pilots that this was part of the Global deal.

Like it or not, those junior guys, from outside of Flexjet are flying as Captains on the largest aircraft. So much for seniority, huh?

And if any more pilots come from Flight Options...well, don't be surprised if you see them in the 300.

Also, they keep their seniority number at Flight Options. That's probably part of KRs plan when and if the lists merge. The Flight Options seniority numbers will be used to move them right on up.

 

[TWA 2 ASA FO]

The Flight Options pilots that are flying the Globals are wearing Flexjet ID badges and are on the bottom of the Flexjet Seniority list.

I know TWA keeps saying that this is false information, but it is fact.

Ask DW. Ask JW. Ask JS at Flight Options. They told the IBT those pilots were on the bottom of the seniority list. And anyone that takes the recent offer will be right below them.

The Flight Options pilots, both line and management, have told other pilots that this was part of the Global deal.

Like it or not, those junior guys, from outside of Flexjet are flying as Captains on the largest aircraft. So much for seniority, huh?

And if any more pilots come from Flight Options...well, don't be surprised if you see them in the 300.

Also, they keep their seniority number at Flight Options. That's probably part of KRs plan when and if the lists merge. The Flight Options seniority numbers will be used to move them right on up.

Unfortunately for your lie, the FJ pilots have access to the seniority list and can clearly see that the Global pilots from FO are not on our list.

It is hard to sell a lie when people have access to the truth.

As for FO pilots going to the 300, I am sure that will happen. We are growing that fleet and will definitely need to hire first officers.

Unless the IBT has changed their stance on single carrier filing, a merged seniority list is not going to happen. I am pretty sure that the IBT won't change its view since that would benefit the pilots and not the union.

 

[The Architect]

Seniority List

Unfortunately for your lie, the FJ pilots have access to the seniority list and can clearly see that the Global pilots from FO are not on our list.

It is hard to sell a lie when people have access to the truth.

You must think I'm don't have access. I see that list too. Of course they're not on their! They don't want to piss off the Flexjet Pilots.

You don't have the truth...access...well, maybe. If DW or JW will give it to you.

Post the question on Yammer for all to see. Ask if the Flight Options pilots hired for the Global are on the Flexjet Seniority List. Ask specifically of DW and JW, "Did you tell the IBT that the Flight Options pilots that accepted Global positions are on the bottom of the Flexjet Seniority list?"

I look forward to reading their response.

We can then discuss their answer and if THEY are being truthful.

 

[DirtyBeech]

I haven't seen a recent seniority list to know if any of the Flops Global pilots are on it. I think that's put out quarterly.

It seems like any Flops guy who comes over will get to pick the better option of their Flex or Flops seniority should integration happen. Seems like that is playing both sides of the fence. We were told that the most recent transitions were slotted for the Lear.

 

[luckydog]

Even if they are at the bottom of the list, it's not the first time a junior crew member has held a captain position on a non-fleet aircraft. In the past, Hybrid program aircraft were interview positions. This isn't unprecedented. The arrangement is that if the program is cancelled the pilots will return to the line at whatever position their seniority holds.

I'm disappointed that the news of Flex is starting a Global program turned into a program mostly staffed by mgmt pilots from Flight Options. Those pilots being added to the bottom of the list isn't an issue.

 

[Praetorian]

Unfortunately for your lie, the FJ pilots have access to the seniority list and can clearly see that the Global pilots from FO are not on our list.

It is hard to sell a lie when people have access to the truth.

As for FO pilots going to the 300, I am sure that will happen. We are growing that fleet and will definitely need to hire first officers.

Unless the IBT has changed their stance on single carrier filing, a merged seniority list is not going to happen. I am pretty sure that the IBT won't change its view since that would benefit the pilots and not the union.

My original post was based on the, apparently mistaken, premise that you guys already knew that the former FO pilots were on the bottom of your list and flying the Global.

I saw two of our former managers the other day in Flex uniforms, complete with FX badges. I ran into two of our former line pilots, who had been drafted to fly the Global, who were in global school in DAL at the same time I was down there, who told me they were now at the bottom of your seniority list.

On top of this, your pilots were told in an August 26 letter from Flexjet that:

1. A Transitioning Pilot's pay will be protected at their current Flight Options rate until the Flexjet pay associated with their position is higher, at which time they will receive the higher pay.
2. A Transitioning Pilot will be given a seniority number at the bottom of the current Flexjet seniority list. This seniority position will be used for purposes of upgrading at Flexjet.

The Flight Options pilots were told in a similar letter on August 26 that FO pilots who decide to run off the FX will be paid more than FX pilots senior to them for as many as 12 years - depending on the FO fleet type they departed. This letter was complete with spread sheets depicting the relative pay scales.

So stop trying to deny the reality that's staring you guys in the face. Forget about what happens after a hypothetical merger, this is happening right now. I want to know how you guys feel about this blatant disregard for your pilot's seniority.


As for your little jab at the union (I know you can't help it). At FO our pilots are the union.