Question for Flex guys

[gutshotdraw]

Sounds as if Kenny's whipsaw plan is working. Perfectly....

 

[TWA 2 ASA FO]

My original post was based on the, apparently mistaken, premise that you guys already knew that the former FO pilots were on the bottom of your list and flying the Global.

I saw two of our former managers the other day in Flex uniforms, complete with FX badges. I ran into two of our former line pilots, who had been drafted to fly the Global, who were in global school in DAL at the same time I was down there, who told me they were now at the bottom of your seniority list.

On top of this, your pilots were told in an August 26 letter from Flexjet that:

1. A Transitioning Pilot's pay will be protected at their current Flight Options rate until the Flexjet pay associated with their position is higher, at which time they will receive the higher pay.
2. A Transitioning Pilot will be given a seniority number at the bottom of the current Flexjet seniority list. This seniority position will be used for purposes of upgrading at Flexjet.

The Flight Options pilots were told in a similar letter on August 26 that FO pilots who decide to run off the FX will be paid more than FX pilots senior to them for as many as 12 years - depending on the FO fleet type they departed. This letter was complete with spread sheets depicting the relative pay scales.

So stop trying to deny the reality that's staring you guys in the face. Forget about what happens after a hypothetical merger, this is happening right now. I want to know how you guys feel about this blatant disregard for your pilot's seniority.


As for your little jab at the union (I know you can't help it). At FO our pilots are the union.

The transitioning pilots are the FO pilots who are not having to interview.

The Goobal pilots had to interview are are indeed not on the seniority list at FJ.

The letter you are referring to has nothing to do with the Global program and you know it. You are trying to take a letter that applies to FO pilots who are bidding by seniority to come to the bottom of the FJ seniority and apply it to a program that was in place before he letter was written.

 

[SDCFI]

Sounds as if Kenny's whipsaw plan is working. Perfectly....

It's not a whipsaw; Flexjet has the overall advantage in pay, benefits, and general QOL. What it is is KR's frontal assault on the FO union and Flexjet management is gladly helping him do it. There is no good reason for DAC to want active FO pilots coming over to Flexjet unless it is to get them to "see the light" and turn against the union and vote for single carrier. It's not even necessarily permanent, 24 months minimum and they get to keep their pay and FO seniority number. Flexjet pilots have never been allowed to change fleets unless company needs demanded it. Now all of a sudden we're opening the doors to another pilot group because "they want to fly Flexjet airplanes". Horse apples. And their argument that it still brings back furloughees because it creates openings at FO is junk. It would drive 2 training events as opposed to 1 which has always been the argument against Flex pilots moving. No, this is just the latest event in the 3 ring circus we are in with KR as the ringmaster.

 

[The Architect]

Weak

The transitioning pilots are the FO pilots who are not having to interview.

The Goobal pilots had to interview are are indeed not on the seniority list at FJ.

The letter you are referring to has nothing to do with the Global program and you know it. You are trying to take a letter that applies to FO pilots who are bidding by seniority to come to the bottom of the FJ seniority and apply it to a program that was in place before he letter was written.

Weak answer.

And...he said "Goobal."

 

[luckydog]

2. As a result of DW's recent offer, additional currently active FO pilots may be headed over to FX, will be stapled to the bottom of your seniority list and will for years - although pay frozen - subsequently be making more than many other pilots senior to them on your list.

No one is being stapled anywhere. All new hires start at the bottom. IF Flight Options ever hires off the street how will you feel about those guys being stapled to the bottom of your list?

 

[TWA 2 ASA FO]

Weak answer.

And...he said "Goobal."

Weak answer, as in you have no rebuttal therefore poke fun at a misspelled word.

 

[slowtation capt]

It's not a whipsaw; Flexjet has the overall advantage in pay, benefits, and general QOL. What it is is KR's frontal assault on the FO union and Flexjet management is gladly helping him do it. There is no good reason for DAC to want active FO pilots coming over to Flexjet unless it is to get them to "see the light" and turn against the union and vote for single carrier. It's not even necessarily permanent, 24 months minimum and they get to keep their pay and FO seniority number. Flexjet pilots have never been allowed to change fleets unless company needs demanded it. Now all of a sudden we're opening the doors to another pilot group because "they want to fly Flexjet airplanes". Horse apples. And their argument that it still brings back furloughees because it creates openings at FO is junk. It would drive 2 training events as opposed to 1 which has always been the argument against Flex pilots moving. No, this is just the latest event in the 3 ring circus we are in with KR as the ringmaster.

So true

:beer:

 

[Ludicrous Speed]

5. A pilot who is hired by Flexjet will retain their Flight Options seniority number. They will also be given a placeholder position at the bottom of the current Flexjet seniority list. This seniority position will be used for purposes of upgrading at Flexjet. All seniority positions are subject to revision if an integrated seniority list is required at some point in the future.

Gee. Not much legally about what a “placeholder position” really is. Some hits at lacoe.edu & a notice at Airtran. Nothing at Black’s. What lawyer decided to use “placeholder position”? Yeah, yeah, I know it “will be used for purposes of upgrading and pay at Flexjet…” But why even call it a “placeholder position”? And in the very next sentence the lawyer calls it “This seniority position”. And it’s on Flex’s Seniority List. And later: “All Seniority positions…”

People: FO pilots are now on the FJ seniority list. And they’re going to be flying those shiny new jet’s & earning more than some of you. How’s that sit with you?

 

[asdf]

Ludicrous Speed,

Guess what you are saying the new aircraft at Flex are going to be in the "managed fleet" and therefore you interview for the position and will most likely go to Flight Options pilots and then they will be given a Flexjet junior seniority number? But that number really means nothing as they are outside the core fleet but on one of the managed aircraft - similar to the globals now. Hence they will be making more than the junior First Officers at Flexjet.

 

[TWA 2 ASA FO]

5. A pilot who is hired by Flexjet will retain their Flight Options seniority number. They will also be given a placeholder position at the bottom of the current Flexjet seniority list. This seniority position will be used for purposes of upgrading at Flexjet. All seniority positions are subject to revision if an integrated seniority list is required at some point in the future.

Gee. Not much legally about what a ?placeholder position? really is. Some hits at lacoe.edu & a notice at Airtran. Nothing at Black?s. What lawyer decided to use ?placeholder position?? Yeah, yeah, I know it ?will be used for purposes of upgrading and pay at Flexjet?? But why even call it a ?placeholder position?? And in the very next sentence the lawyer calls it ?This seniority position?. And it?s on Flex?s Seniority List. And later: ?All Seniority positions??

People: FO pilots are now on the FJ seniority list. And they?re going to be flying those shiny new jet?s & earning more than some of you. How?s that sit with you?

So far there is one furloughed FO pilot on the FJ seniority list. He is a great guy, but not making any more than FJ crews and we all fly the same equipment.