Question About These 300 Hour New Hires

[Herman Bloom]

Consider this...

One reason the military only gives its candidates one or two shots is COST. It must be very expensive to train a pilot from the ground all the way up to light jets, especially combat jets (dare I guess...over a million?). This approach doesn't necesarily create a safe pilot. But then again, I don't think the military wants fighter pilots to be all that safe (more important to be aggressive, perhaps?). Point is, while it may be comparing apples and oranges, it is still an important comparison to make. What makes a great fighter pilot may indeed make for a less than optimal airline pilot (in theory). My opinion is that the whole "fighter pilots are the greatest" thing is perpetuated by fighter pilots. A hefty ego, after all, is probably a pretty reliable indication of the type of personality that the military looks for in a combat pilot. And it should be.

Just my opinion, but I'm getting fed up with hearing all these military guys talk about themselves.

 

[100LL... Again!]

Passing a 121 checkride is the beginning of meeting the requirements for the job, not the end. Frankly, any monkey can pass a 121 FO ride - I've seen it. If the company wants them to pass, they wil get them through. What is far more telling is the learning curve. A pilot with real world experience will have a greater margin over the 300 hr pilot when it comes to suitability, ALL OTHER THINGS BEING EQUAL. This is true no matter how well the 'academy' guy flies the sim.

There are some pilots who ARE ready at 300 or 600 hours, for certain. To assume that most are really ready at that experience level is a stretch.

The comparison to 300 hr military pilots is entirely invalid. If you require an explanation, you don't understand the difference between military training methods and operations.

Give the slots to those who have paid their dues in the system. Not those who are looking to bypass the character-building side of this industry.

FlyChicaga - You have some good experience, and it sounds like you would be a good candidate for an early move to a regional. Not everyone is working as earnestly as you. Lots of 'em just want the uniform. "Tell me the minimum that I have to learn to be an airline pilot." You know the type.

 

[bssthound]

But then again, I don't think the military wants fighter pilots to be all that safe (more important to be aggressive, perhaps?).

Negative. While it is important to be aggressive, the military is very, very big on safety. This is not point-to point flying at FL350. When you fly low and fast and are training for multiple low-altitude threats a jet is occasionally going to be lost. Most units go many years without losing one.

The military spends a lot of money training its people and a jet fighter costs many millions of dollars. Anyone who's been in that business for more than a few years has lost friends. These folks (a) don't want to be next and (b) are very determined to prevent its happening again.

Just my opinion, but I'm getting fed up with hearing all these military guys talk about themselves

Sorry, I'm just trying to offer the perspective from someone who actually has flown in the military and known people who've excelled at an extremely demanding program. Just like any other endeavor, most people who've not been in the military don't really understand it. Sure, there are some egos, but not nearly as many as most people assume. Of course, when you're training to kill or be killed and you're not pretty durn confident you can knock Gomer on his a$$ you're on the wrong playing field.

 

[FL000]

How many regional captains have you seen on this board that could be described as "enjoying life?"

Here's one.

 

[~~~^~~~]

Here is another!

On the subject of 300 Hour wonders - anyone should grab a flying job whenever the opportunity presents itself. We guys with 5,000 plus hours grabbed the first, best, job we could get. About 15 minutes later we started complaining, but eh' that is what pilots do.

My experience has been that night cargo and corporate guys do the best out on the line as new first officers in the 121 environment. A lot is attitude and the guys who have flown 135 understand when things go badly stay focused on the job. They also understand that every job might be your last job.

Many of the 300 hour wonders are now frustrated with the fact they have to fly at Delta Connection ( "shouldn't we be at Delta by now, heck I'm 25 years old for crying out loud" ). The old saw about not appreciating what you don't have to work for is true.

The programs that put 300 hour pilots in the right seat put an awful lot of pressure on the 3,000 hour Captain in the left seat. Can it be done? Sure. On a pretty day with nothing deferred under optimum conditions it works out pretty well. However, on a 200 & 1 night with contaminated runways, a deferred APU, a pair of PO'd flight attendants I would prefer the 6,500 hour FO who doesn't want to ruin the "quality of life" by upgrading "early."

But the truth is, who flies on the broken airplanes on 200 & 1/2 nights with light freezing precip? The junior guys, the junior Captains with the most junior FO's on reserve. The situation is ripe for getting in trouble and many do.

For those considering paying huge money for sim time and an interview, try to talk to one of the pilots who do the interviewing. Sometimes the schemes put together by the VP of Human Resources do not pass muster with the senior line pilots who usually are involved in the interview process. Those senior pilots are the ones who have been out there on line and they are looking for someone they would not mind flying a month of four day trips with, they don't really care where you went to school. Most of these guys are eager to help and having a little help on the inside never hurt - a lesson well learned by those guys who are applying for the same jobs with 3,500 hours and a couple of type ratings.

Best regards,
~~~^~~~

 

[KingAirer]

Where does it leave us?

Im not quite sure where this discussion leaves pilots with a 4 year degree, 1000+TT, 300+ multi, 8 years in aviation, couple of years line service, flown all over the country, and flown some crappy airplanes. I guess we'll just have better stories to share and maybe we'll enjoy "the" job better when we get there. Its tough not to be somewhat bitter (for lack of a better word) when you hear of people getting hired with airline after they have been involved with aviation maybe a year or two, and paying more money than I can imagine for training. This is just part of "the game" of aviation and im still learning. I have more respect than you can imagine for those guys who have been furloughed and taken jobs at the bottom of the barrel and flying as FOs to those who may have less time then they have in the seat beside them.

Keepin' the faith,
Kingairer

 

[GEUAviator]

Wow! I guess I stirred up quite a bit of opinions with my initial question.

Thanks for all the replies.

I guess I'm a little more informed now. I was under the impression that most of the 300 hour pilots went straight to the right seat of an RJ (or something comparable). I had no idea that these same pilots STILL need minimums (ie. 1,000 100) before they get a job.

By the way, no jealousy on my part. The "300 hour wonder" comment is not so much my opinion as it is a marketing tool used by many part 141 schools.

Example (I saw this blurb for a couple of different schools):

"You will become a professional pilot without ever having to flight instruct" (Very loosely quoted)

While I don't foresee myself instructing for the rest of my aviation career, I do enjoy it and I learn something new every day! There is no regret on my part after choosing the CFI route.

Adios,
GEUAviator

 

[bssthound]

Excellent post, ~~~^~~~
There's been a lot of digression, a good bit of it my doing, but you really hit the nail on the head.

 

[Typhoon1244]

I'm certain you and I both know people who shouldn't be at ASA despite our company's rigorous screening processes!

True...and some of them have 300 hours. I don't worry about a guy with 300 hours who's flying skills need a lot of work. It's the guys with 10,000 hours who need a lot of work that bother me!

 

[100LL... Again!]

The same get-there-quick attitude that causes people to want to get into an airline cockpit TODAY may also, as a previous poster noted, become frustrated when the fast advancement stops.

Second of all, those who possess this attitude (IN MY OPINION) are also more likely to cave on contract issues, since they seem to have less respect for all phases of the profession and are only interested in 'getting theirs'.

A seniority list full of these guys would scare me if I was a senior pilot.

Suffering and adversity builds character - sorely lacking in this modern world. The attitude : "Gimme mine now! I know I wasn't here first, but that has nothing to do with it."