Question about logging PIC time.

[FmrFreightDog]

OK. This is going to open a whole can of worms, I know. I have an interview coming up, and I am doing a final logbook review. I, just like everyone else, have a lot of logged PIC time where I really wasn't the ultimate boss in the airplane. A good example of this would be when I was getting my instrument rating. Yes, I was legally able to log PIC, since I was appropriately rated in the airplane, but I wasn't really the guy with ultimate responsibility. Should I just leave things like they are, or should I go back and delete PIC entries for the flights when I was getting Dual Received? I use Logbook Pro, so deleting wouldn't be too big a deal, it would just require a reprint and another $40 printer cartridge. Which would a company like, oh.. say Northwest, prefer to see? I have plenty of honest "I signed for the airplane" PIC time, so I'm not worried about the hours. I just don't want someone reviewing my logbook to look at it and say either, "Why did he claim PIC for this?" or "Why didn't he claim PIC for this?? Does this moron not know the rules??"

Any insight, peanut gallery?? Occam, perhaps??

Thanks guys and girls.

 

[regionalcap]

As long as you are rated in the aircraft, you can log it as PIC when you are receiving instruction. There is a difference between logging PIC and acting PIC. You have done nothing wrong. Leave the entries as they are and good luck on the interview.

 

[Splert]

No need to reprint. If NWA asks for Part 1 PIC time then don't include the time when you received dual instruction while you logged PIC.

LogBook Pro should be able to handle that with a few points and clicks.

Don't over think it and good luck with the interview.

:beer:

 

[igneousy2]

I only have paper logs and I created a new column (I just crossed out solo as back when I was training it wasn't the practice to put solo and PIC in different columns.) I created a 121 PIC column. This column was hours that met the strictest definition of "121 turbine PIC" I did not even include my Captain IOE time. I've been to interviews at 3 major airlines and they all seemed to like that.

I don't know much about logbook pro but maybe there is a way to do it in logbook pro without having to change your logbook too much. That way if you need it the other way (insurance, 8710s, etc.) then you don't have to change it again.

good luck

 

[fly4unclesam]

I do it the same way as igneousy2 and I do use logbook pro. I just created a new column right next to the standard PIC column and I call it Part 1 PIC because it shows time that meets the definition of Part 1...ie the one responsible for the airplane. For my light aircraft time, it is basically all of my PIC time, minus PIC that was also logged as dual received.

 

[SSDD]

With 8,000+ hours I don't think you have to worry about 40 hours of dual received.

 

[FmrFreightDog]

With 8,000+ hours I don't think you have to worry about 40 hours of dual received.

True, but you never know what will be "nitpicked" at an interview.

Thanks, guys and girls. I actually accidentally misstated the facts on my first post. When I went to logbook pro, I intentionally removed PIC from the flights where I was also receiving instruction. I was contemplating adding it back in. Seeing as how I have plenty of PIC time, I think I will just leave well enough alone and forfeit the +/- 40 hours of PIC I could have gained by logging PIC alongside Dual Received. If an interviewer asks me about it, I feel confident that I can say something like, "I log my times by the strictest definition." much like I don't log Instrument time when I'm not the pilot flying, even though I'm the PIC. (And I'm sure I just opened another can of worms with that one!!!)

Amazing how an interview will make you sweat the smallest detail, huh?

Again, thanks guys, and thanks for all the "Good Lucks". I appreciate it.

 

[STL717]

They didn't even look at my log books in my last TWO interviews.

Got a job both times too.

 

[thor2j]

I interviewed with Northwest in 2000. One of the guys interviewing me had a heart attack becasue when I had about 40 hours in an airplane I had an "incomplete" because we couldn't finish something. He wanted to know what this was and why it wasn't on my app. At the time I had about 6000+ hours with 5400+ turbine 121.

Just food for thought.

P.S. Best thing that ever happened to me not getting that job!!

 

[LearLove]

With 8,000+ hours I don't think you have to worry about 40 hours of dual received.

I'm thinking the same - as for my self i have the same situation, something like 56 hours where i logged pic but was getting duel at the same time.

maybe it matters at say 500 to 1000tt but at 8000+ i'd say it shouldn't. If i were interviewing guys at the major level i'd be more interested in your turb pic, training/upgrade/work history and personality - but then again ask some guys that interviewed at UAL pre 911.

BFD - if some interview guy (hopefully I never have to interview again) down the road makes a deal over this then i'll just ..... actually i don't know what i'd do - depends how much I need the job at the time - could range from telling the guy off or playing the "interview game" and giving my best response

 

[LearLove]

They didn't even look at my log books in my last TWO interviews.

Got a job both times too.

Airtran in 2001 never opened mine either. I was asked 3 questions and did the desktop sim and sent home. thought I blew it - they called a week later with an offer.

 

[skiandsurf]

Back in '99 or 2000, a friend interviewed at UAL. He had something like you are describing. He had 12,000 total time, but there was a 17 hour discrepency on the dual given or dual received. They told him to reapply in 6 months.

 

[pilotyip]

You would think

With 8,000+ hours I don't think you have to worry about 40 hours of dual received.

You would not think it would make a difference. At my UAL interview in 1996, the interviewer found a 38-hour difference between my bubble sheet and my Navy Log. At this time I had about 10,500 hours, most of turbine PIC. My reported time was lower than my actual time. Back then in the Navy you didn’t keep your own logbook, the Navy did. Back in 1970, a Yeoman in the Ops Dept at my squadron did the carry over and lost 38 hours. I just took yearly totals when I signed off my logbook each year and never looked at carryovers. Anyway she made a big deal out of it, got me on attention to detail. I didn't get hired, which in hindsight was probably a good thing

 

[BeeFCaKe]

At the UAL interview, you probably sat in the wrong chair, wore the wrong color tie, or parted your hair the wrong way.
You are talking about a .3% difference in time.
I doubt they will be that picky when they start running people through again.

 

[pilotyip]

Interview from heck

At the UAL interview, you probably sat in the wrong chair, wore the wrong color tie, or parted your hair the wrong way.
You are talking about a .3% difference in time.
I doubt they will be that picky when they start running people through again.

yea I had the famous Judy Stuk and some very tall female Capt who introduced herself with three names, like Susan Barns King.

 

[Jamis81]

Logging PIC Time

so here's a question about logging PIC Time, If I was a First Officer on a plane with a max takeoff of 12,500, could I log PIC time on the legs that I was the Sole Manipulator of Controls? or does it go back to who signed for the airplane? I've read where it says in the regs that I could, but what how would it look in an interview?

Thanks

 

[QuasarZ]

In regards to that question, most will say no. Technically you can, but in any interview they will not count that time usually.

 

[Jamis81]

pic time

Thanks, that's what I thought. I'll just leave it as SIC..

 

[Helos2Galaxy]

Talk about nitpicking; I got in to an argument (heated discussion) with an interviewer regarding "other" time in my military logbook.

Other time is part of total time but not in a control seat (during breaks on long flights). Our discussion became heated when asked if "other" was included in my PIC totals and I responded YES on flights when I was the PIC. He apparently didn't like that "How can you be the PIC while sleeping or on break?" I tried to equate it to a 747/767/777 Captain in the other airlines on 3/4 pilot legs. Isn't the Captain alway the Captain/PIC. PIC is not relinguished in the airlines and not in the AF either.

In the end, he seemed pissed and not satisfied, took out an eraser and changed numbers right then and there. I didn't get a job offer.

Oh, well. I am now back at my post BK carrier, watching the growth, 1-2 bids from a left seat and haven't seen a hotel since June. I probably would have accepted the job and not looked back. However, in retrospect, not getting that job offer seemed to be the best thing that's happened in my career since getting hired here 8 years ago.

Good luck to all!

 

[gcsass]

Hey H2G
They probably could smell the Helo stink on ya!!

Takes a lot of soapies to wash that off...