Question about instrument checkride..

QuasarZ

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For the instrument checkride will the DE make you do steep turns, slow flight and stalls? My instructor insists that I need to practice these some more before my checkride and I am just wondering if I need them for the ride? My friend did his Instrument checkride and the DE didnt do it, so I am confused.
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Kream926

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i had to do step turns but not stalls. i hear they took them out of the PTS recently so you might wanna check it. but its not bad practice if you do steep turns with just refrence to just the instruments
 

User546

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I personally didn't on my checkride. Mainly we just hit all the instrument procedures; basic BAI, VOR tracking, holding, precisions, non-precision, GPS approaches, DME arcs, departure procedures, unusual attitudes, flying a clearance, and a circle to land.

If you look at your rusty-trusty PTS, the only maneuver listed that you mentioned that should be expected on the checkride would be the Steep Turn. However, the one I'm referencing is from a couple years ago, so even that might have been taken out as Kream mentioned.
 

mattpilot

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About 16 months ago, steepturns were still required, as that was when i did my checkride.

Since i did my checkride in low IFR conditions, my "steepturn" was only a 110 degree turn on the missed on one of the approaches.

**edit: Stalls and slowflight are not on the to-do list. Your instructor needs to brush up on that. Either he really doesn't know, or he is trying to get a few more hours out of you. Tell him where to stick it :)
 
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QuasarZ

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I think that doing steep turns or slow flight is kind of a waste of time because in IMC i sure as heck wont being doing them.
 

mattpilot

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QuasarZ said:
I think that doing steep turns or slow flight is kind of a waste of time because in IMC i sure as heck wont being doing them.
Steep turns come in handy when ATC tells you to make an immediate turn to left/right do to traffic on collision course.

Slow flight might come in handy when ATC tells you to slow down for spacing. Either do that, or fly the same procedure again which could take up to 15 min.

So, as you can see, practicing that is not a waste of time.
 

QuasarZ

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mattpilot said:
Steep turns come in handy when ATC tells you to make an immediate turn to left/right do to traffic on collision course.

Slow flight might come in handy when ATC tells you to slow down for spacing. Either do that, or fly the same procedure again which could take up to 15 min.

So, as you can see, practicing that is not a waste of time.
Actually.. I know practicing isnt a waste of time.. I was just saying that in IMC conditions I wouldnt go out and purposley be doing steep turns and slow flight.
 

User546

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mattpilot said:
Steep turns come in handy when ATC tells you to make an immediate turn to left/right do to traffic on collision course.

Slow flight might come in handy when ATC tells you to slow down for spacing. Either do that, or fly the same procedure again which could take up to 15 min.

So, as you can see, practicing that is not a waste of time.
I was taught never to bank over 30 degrees when in actual IMC. And I've always used that rule and its worked fine, even if I've had to steepen it momentarily to 40-45 degrees during an intercept.

In IMC ATC is not going to have you in slow flight. All traffic will be on an IFR flight plan, and ATC will be providing sufficient spacing, or/and they'll just give you a speed restriction instead.
 

mattpilot

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User997 said:
I was taught never to bank over 30 degrees when in actual IMC. And I've always used that rule and its worked fine, even if I've had to steepen it momentarily to 40-45 degrees during an intercept.

In IMC ATC is not going to have you in slow flight. All traffic will be on an IFR flight plan, and ATC will be providing sufficient spacing, or/and they'll just give you a speed restriction instead.
- The DPE wanted a 45 degree bank.

- As for slow flight - i'm not suggesting that anyone do that or even try it. We only practice it to do it above stall speed to be best prepared. But lets assume you are in IMC and ATC asks you to slow down momentarily to a speed that is at or behind the powercurve (but still way above stall speed), would you do it, or would you say unable and have ATC vector you around for a few more minutes?
 

viper548

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Steep turns were removed from the PTS about a year ago. They added a couple things, I think they were a circle to land inst approach, GPS if A/C is equipped, and coupled approach if A/C is equipped.
 

User546

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mattpilot said:
But lets assume you are in IMC and ATC asks you to slow down momentarily to a speed that is at or behind the powercurve (but still way above stall speed), would you do it, or would you say unable and have ATC vector you around for a few more minutes?
Honestly, I'd give them a polite "unable" and let them point my aircraft nose around for a few more minutes. I've never been a fan of letting my aircraft get around the edges. Especially in IMC!
 

captdippe'

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slow flight in IMC might kill you if there is any ice i think it's a waste of time. But you will have to do attitude work with the hood on. Good luck i feel thats one of the hardest rides and most improtant. :)
 

Fly_Chick

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QuasarZ said:
For the instrument checkride will the DE make you do steep turns, slow flight and stalls?
No.

FAA-S-8081-4D, the current edition of the Instrument PTS does not contain Slow Flight, Stalls, nor Steep Turns.

These were required in the past, yet the current PTS, on Page 3 states, "The publish date for FAA-S-8081-4D is April 2004, but the material will be effective October 1, 2004. All previous editions of the Instrument Rating Practical Test Standards will be obsolete as of this date."
 

MDAutry

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I just can't believe the out right Arrogance of some of the instructors out there especially the ones at MTSU. Mattpilot just tried to tell a guy with +1500hrs that he has a better understanding of IMC flying. How many hours do you have actual you dumba$$... I have known so many instructors to come out of MTSU thinking b/c they made it in the Garcia/MTSU buble that they are excellent pilots. Go get a real job and see how many real pilots laugh at you.
 

nosehair

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QuasarZ said:
? My instructor insists that I need to practice these some more before my checkride and I am just wondering if I need them for the ride?
They are not needed for the checkride. If that is the sole intent and purpose your instructor is requiring it, then you should ask him to get a new PTS. And, by the way, YOU should have one. Every pilot applicant should have, and use, a PTS to prepare for any Practical Test.

However, passing a checkride is not the name of the game. It isn't. Learning to save your bacon, and your passengers, and those random victims on the ground, is the name of the game. Proficiency. That is all that matters.

Don't think for one second that you can always avoid steep turns or close-to-stalling in instruments. If you fly long enough, on instruments, you WILL have gyro failure, radio failure, and unusual attitudes in thunderstorms. Steep turns and stalls help you maintain control in those unusual situations.

This is not to say that you are in need of that training - I don't know you - but just a consideration that maybe this instructor actually cares about you and wants you to be proficient - beyoud the PTS.

What about you? do you feel proficient in these "unusual" conditions?
 

mattpilot

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MDAutry said:
I just can't believe the out right Arrogance of some of the instructors out there especially the ones at MTSU. Mattpilot just tried to tell a guy with +1500hrs that he has a better understanding of IMC flying. How many hours do you have actual you dumba$$... I have known so many instructors to come out of MTSU thinking b/c they made it in the Garcia/MTSU buble that they are excellent pilots. Go get a real job and see how many real pilots laugh at you.
Having a bad day?

I'm not telling User997 what to do or how to do it. All i've done is give a plausible reason as to why the FAA required slowflight, stalls, and steep turns at one point. User997 commented on it and i asked him a question. Since User997 and I fly in the same airspace, he knows that our airport gets quite busy and its not uncommen, at least not for singles, to be asked to vary speed. Thats why the question was directed at him, and not at you. The difference in our procedure lies, in part, in the fact that he gets paid to fly and i mostly have to pay my own time. So i politely redirect the "dumba$$" comment to you, and hope you will mind your own business in the future.


Oh, and what the hell is MTSU? If its as bad as you say, you must be a graduate of it.
 

NYCPilot

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I've had instrument students practice power-on/off stalls under the hood, just to see what it's like. Steep turns and slow flight should be practiced as well as the stall series under the hood, even though they're not specifically required on the PTS. Leaving them out would be kind of like disservice, and merely "teaching the PTS" to pass the checkride. Teaching only what is covered on the PTS and leaving everything else out.

I feel it is important to be able to proficiently fly on instruments under varying flight conditions you might not normally encounter during instrument flight. Steep turns are more challenging under the hood than they are visually, and will improve your ability to control the aircraft more precisely on instruments. You will gain a better feel of the varying control forces experienced during a steep turn. They feel much different under the hood than they do when performed visually. You will be more cognizant of the greater control forces required and the G-forces which will cause some disorientation. In the slow flight regime, once again, the control forces will feel much different. Being able to perform stalls and steep turns accurately, will improve your handling and feel of the aircraft on instruments. It will also increase your confidence level. Stall/spin accidents are usually precipitated by inattention during the takeoff and approach phases. During IFR flight, a LOT is going on, and it is quite easy to lose control of the airplane and find yourself in a slow flight/stall situation. Having practiced slow flight and stalls under the hood will certainly leave you more prepared to deal with this should you encounter such a situation. Whether it is a “required” task or not, go and practice them.

This may be extreme, but I’ve heard of guys spinning through clouds (intentionally) and recovering in IMC. Not suggesting or advocating it, but you’ve got to have some pretty good skills and be confident if you’re gonna pull these off.
 

User546

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mattpilot said:
I'm not telling User997 what to do or how to do it. All i've done is give a plausible reason as to why the FAA required slowflight, stalls, and steep turns at one point. User997 commented on it and i asked him a question. Since User997 and I fly in the same airspace, he knows that our airport gets quite busy and its not uncommen, at least not for singles, to be asked to vary speed.
Matt wasn't trying to start anything or say that I was wrong. He just merely asked an opinion regarding a certain scenario since we both fly out of the same airport. He didn't refute my response to his question did he?

And now that I fully understand your original question, I think your comparing apples to oranges. When we're coming into our airport we don't take our airplane below 115 kts (we'll typically setup around 125-135), and we've always received priority over all the single-engine traffic. Since our approach speed is faster then most of the single's cruise at, It's much easier for the singles to do a 360 then a jet that's not flying anything more then a makeshift traffic pattern. We always end up entering on a base leg or straight-in. Now if I was flying a single or a light-twin, I wouldn't mind slowing it up for a little slow flight as long as it was VMC conditions, and he didnt want me to slow up any slower then what was safe.

The way I took your original question was if ATC would tell us to do slow flight while in IMC conditions. It wouldn't happen to begin with since the field would be handling only IFR traffic, and separation would have to be provided anyways. At most, ATC would give you an airspeed restriction - and they know what airplane you're in, so they wouldn't tell you to slow down to an unsafe speed based on your aircraft.

MDAutrey, Give the guy a break and relax a little before you go accusing! He doesn't have much instrument experience, and he's merely asking the opinion of other people who have had more experience then him. What's wrong with that?
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RichardRambone

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I had a vaccum failure just yesterday but thankfully we were VMC. Ill tell ya it makes me think that if it had happened during IMC (which I was in the previous flight) Id thank my lucky stars that I had a very good instrument instructor. It didnt have a turn coordinator either. Just compass, airspeed, VSI and altimeter. And if I had to shoot an approach I coulda done it but damn.
 
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