Q: For Ex-airline guys at NetJets

[miles otoole]

Get a life.

Man, that was QUICK! I am impressed-There must be a flightinfo union duty watch running 24/7 somewhere. Very cool.

 

[Going2Baja]

Miles is a Tool

No kidding-especially as the emergencies were flown on owner's aircraft. I wonder how many last minute owner emergencies the company regularly turns down. Were the owners reimbursed by the company?
A great deal for the crews, however, it's the owners who pay for this. Is this emergency thing in the contract?

"otoole' - shouldn't it just be Tool? Or maybe Troll? What's your deal bro?

How about posting "No kidding-especially as the emergencies were flown on owner's aircraft. I wonder if the company turns down last minute owner emergencies - I would hope not. Were the owners reimbursed by the company or does the company pick up the tab for it's employees?
A great deal for the crews. I bet this emergency thing is in the owners contract."

Maybe I haven't been here this long but you sound like a bitter guy. Less coffee in the morning and maybe get outside and do a little excercise.

I truly hope you become a happier person!

Baja.

 

[realityman]

Wow, a thread under the Fractionals forum with absolutely no union spin one way or the other and O'toole just had to jump in with some! Sounds like someone just likes to stir the pot. Flamebait. The union says to just ignore this guy.

But back on topic, Shortly after I started with NJA, about 9 years ago, I was on the road when I got word that my father had been shot in a robbery attempt. Netjets said they'd send me home right away and to just head straight over to the airline terminal. Keep in mind, we had pax ON THE PLANE waiting to go when I was told to just go. It was a short trip from TEB to DCA so I flew it anyway and left immediately from DCA (found out my dad was shot in the leg and not life-threatening so I wanted to get home but it wasn't critical enough to screw our clients). And just recently I was in recurrent training at FlightSafety and had an emergency come up at home. NJA airlined me back on the first available flight, no questions asked, and scheduled my training to be finished later.

They like to play hardball with contract issues, but no one can fault them at all for how we're treated when serious personal issues arise.

 

[inthewind]

Not only will they get you home but if its quicker you will fly your jet home asap. 3 years ago my mother was rushed to the ER, sister called. I called the company and within 5 mins they said take the X home. Sent the release and flight plan asap and we were gone. One thing NetJets has always done is get crew-members home in any kind of situation no questions asked. So if you are worried about this here DON'T be. This is one area NetJets does shine in.

ACA/ Independence was actually good about this. Once we had a flight attendant collapse in the gym on the road. The company called in pilots off reserve, grabbed a spare dork jet and flew his family up to be with him, afterwards when he passed away, they even flew the casket home for the family. It sure is nice to hear that NJA cares about its people too!

 

[Fozzy]

Man, that was QUICK! I am impressed-There must be a flightinfo union duty watch running 24/7 somewhere. Very cool.

No, actually we call it .....watch.

edited for language

 

[Tref]

It sure is nice to hear about companies treating their employees well when something important comes up.

Here's one from the other side...

When I was at Cathay there was a Captain who was traveling HKG-LHR because his father had passed away quite suddenly. The Captain I was working with asked the Chief Purser (Lead F/A) to upgrade him to First Class so he could get some rest (he'd just finished a long haul flight.) The Chief Purser told him that the company had specifically forbade her from upgrading the non-rev Captain (even though FC was half empty.) The company said, "his contract says economy class and that's what he'll get."

Nice, eh?!

 

[miles otoole]

If you are assigned LAX as a domicile, the union will take care of you.

The truth hurts only if it should. If this "truth" makes me an Ahole, then so be it. If you were part of a real strong union, you would have made sure the new hires received the same QOL as the current employees. I hope you apologize to every new hire.

 

[AirBear8]

One of our pilot's kids was born with "Blue Baby" syndrome and at the age of 4 months needed surgery done at a hospital halfway across the country. It wasn't safe for the kid to fly on airlines because of all the germs floating around. NetJets sent a Citation V Ultra to pick up the pilot and his family and flew them to the hospital. NetJets does take care of their people.

AirBear

 

[Diesel]

A friend of mine was on a trip when he was notified that there was a call from the CP and he was on hold.

Turns out he had a family member that was sick. He was in the islands and the company sent a jet just for him. They flew him home, had a limo waiting for him to take him to the hospital and told him call when he was ready to be back but take care of family first.

As for me. I have had a family member that is very sick. The company has been great letting me take the time off to take care of him. It's weird times but they don't ask any questions. They just tell me to take share of my family first.

They haven't lost the family touch in some regards.

 

[Fozzy]

Flew with that guy a few weeks ago. That is a amazing story. NJA came through.

Hey Tool. Get a fing life. You sound like some pissed off brat. Ya, so the one big hole in the new CBA is new hires don't have FFH. WE KNOW. More to it than you will ever know. Now go get some new materal. You sound like a broken record.

 

[inthewind]

Guys, thanks for all the great stories about Netjets! I hope to be slingin' gear for you within the month.

 

[ozpilot]

I left Comair for Netjets at the end of the 2001 strike. I was a third year Captain at Comair.

For me it was the right decision. All the good points posted above about Netjets are pretty much true. You should be aware however, that flying for a scheduled airline – such as Comair – does have some advantages over fractional flying. Its like comparing driving a limo vs. driving a bus.

As a limo driver you will be expected to have a greater interaction with the passengers, and you will not have the level of support in the field that you have at an airline. If you piss off a passenger at an airline and they don’t come back, it has a minimal impact on the company’s bottom line. If you do it at a fractional where the owner is a multimillionaire it can mean your job.

At Comair its easy to fly a four day trip and never even talk to a passenger; At Netjets you are expected to be not only the pilot but also the customer service representative. You are also expected to be the baggage handler, caterer, aircraft cleaner, security, EMS person etc. etc. Remember that unless you are in the Falcon or the BBJ you will not have the benefit of a Flight Attendant. There’s a reason our company recurrent takes a week! Our job is not just transportation; it is to spoil our passengers rotten. At Netjets ‘whatever it takes’ means just that. Personally I like dealing with my passengers at this level, but if you think your job as a pilot is to simply fly the plane it may not be for you.

At Netjets they expect two things from their pilots: Performance and Attitude. Netjets will tell you that safety is number one and they mean it. In the year that I have been here I have seen numerous examples where the company has put safety before customer consideration. So you must be able to meet the performance standards.

Attitude is also important. Fourteen hour days are not uncommon and you will be expected to deliver the same level of service on the last leg as you did on the first. On the plus side the company is smart enough to realize that the level of service expected by our owners, at the end of the day, is delivered by the pilots. The company will go to extraordinary measures to help us deliver. If you visit Columbus take a tour of the Operations center. Half the people support the customers. Guess what the other half do? They support the pilots. I don’t recall too many of those at Comair.

The bus driver also has the advantage of a fixed schedule. As a limo driver you work schedule is subject to constant change. There are only two things you can be sure of: the company will not touch you on your days off and you will get at least 10 hours of rest each day

Does this sound like a fatigue issue? You bet it is, but here’s the big difference between Comair and Netjets. If you tell Netjets you are too tired to fly then that’s the end of the story. The company does not want you to fly fatigued. Work rules in the Comair contract are more stringent but I believe they are there because they need to be.

Bottom line: For me the disadvantages of working at Comair had everything to do with how the company treated us and little to do with the nature of the business. At Netjets the disadvantages are all related to the nature of the business which the company does its best to minimize. I love it, but its not for everyone.

Good Luck.

 

[On Your Six]

I left Comair for Netjets at the end of the 2001 strike. I was a third year Captain at Comair.

For me it was the right decision. All the good points posted above about Netjets are pretty much true. You should be aware however, that flying for a scheduled airline – such as Comair – does have some advantages over fractional flying. Its like comparing driving a limo vs. driving a bus.

As a limo driver you will be expected to have a greater interaction with the passengers, and you will not have the level of support in the field that you have at an airline. If you piss off a passenger at an airline and they don’t come back, it has a minimal impact on the company’s bottom line. If you do it at a fractional where the owner is a multimillionaire it can mean your job.

At Comair its easy to fly a four day trip and never even talk to a passenger; At Netjets you are expected to be not only the pilot but also the customer service representative. You are also expected to be the baggage handler, caterer, aircraft cleaner, security, EMS person etc. etc. Remember that unless you are in the Falcon or the BBJ you will not have the benefit of a Flight Attendant. There’s a reason our company recurrent takes a week! Our job is not just transportation; it is to spoil our passengers rotten. At Netjets ‘whatever it takes’ means just that. Personally I like dealing with my passengers at this level, but if you think your job as a pilot is to simply fly the plane it may not be for you.

At Netjets they expect two things from their pilots: Performance and Attitude. Netjets will tell you that safety is number one and they mean it. In the year that I have been here I have seen numerous examples where the company has put safety before customer consideration. So you must be able to meet the performance standards.

Attitude is also important. Fourteen hour days are not uncommon and you will be expected to deliver the same level of service on the last leg as you did on the first. On the plus side the company is smart enough to realize that the level of service expected by our owners, at the end of the day, is delivered by the pilots. The company will go to extraordinary measures to help us deliver. If you visit Columbus take a tour of the Operations center. Half the people support the customers. Guess what the other half do? They support the pilots. I don’t recall too many of those at Comair.

The bus driver also has the advantage of a fixed schedule. As a limo driver you work schedule is subject to constant change. There are only two things you can be sure of: the company will not touch you on your days off and you will get at least 10 hours of rest each day

Does this sound like a fatigue issue? You bet it is, but here’s the big difference between Comair and Netjets. If you tell Netjets you are too tired to fly then that’s the end of the story. The company does not want you to fly fatigued. Work rules in the Comair contract are more stringent but I believe they are there because they need to be.

Bottom line: For me the disadvantages of working at Comair had everything to do with how the company treated us and little to do with the nature of the business. At Netjets the disadvantages are all related to the nature of the business which the company does its best to minimize. I love it, but its not for everyone.

Good Luck.

Now that was a great post! Limo driver vs. bus driver - a great comparison...

 

[Archie Bunker]

The truth hurts only if it should. If this "truth" makes me an Ahole, then so be it. If you were part of a real strong union, you would have made sure the new hires received the same QOL as the current employees. I hope you apologize to every new hire.

Miles,

Just curious........who do you fly for now? Still in the military, or did you make the transition to a commercial carrier? Reason being, we share a similar past......we were (are) both Naval Aviators.

Most of the Navy/Marine Corps pilots that I know on active duty have very negative opinions of labor unions (just like you). Their idea of job security is a guard at the main gate with an M-16. They come from an autocratic society where they are the officers and "management" that lay down the law, and it is followed without question or debate. As you know, they come from a world that is perhaps a little more oriented towards "mission accomplishment" than it is about making a profit, or quality of life issues. In the military world, this all makes perfect sense, and it sounds like it describes you to a T.

After the transition to the airline flying world, a strange thing happens to most of these guys once they have lived through the labor relations process at their respective airline.......they realize that THEY are now the worker bee, and not a manager anymore. They are a unit cost to be controlled, and nothing more. Many of them learn the hard way that management's spoken word and promises mean absolutely nothing in the world of corporate CEOs, lawyers, and negotiators. They find out that maybe management isn't exactly looking out for their best interests. Words like "loyalty," "brotherhood," and "family" actually meant something to them in their military days, but when these words are uttered from the mouths of corporate America spokesmen, they all too soon realize that they are just catchy buzz words that are meaningless.

During our contract negotiations at Delta back in 2000/2001, I saw many of my former military pilot buddies that were once viciously anti-union, actually pick up a sign and walk an informational picket line. Some volunteered for duties at ALPA, while others maintained their support for the union through other methods.

I am just curious as to how you arrived at all your extremely negative views towards unions? If you are still an active duty military pilot, I can understand where you are coming from, and why you feel the way you do. If you already made the move to commercial flying, please enlighten us as to why you feel the need to badmouth unions so much; particularly the NJA guys and their union. The IBT along with the NJA pilots made leaps and bounds over their prior contract in almost every respect, setting the bar very high in terms of overall compensation and benefits. The issue of home basing is the only negative that I can see in the contract. If that is the only "bad" thing in their new contract, then they did a great job.

Who knows, maybe in the future NJA management will re-open the home basing option to lure more pilots to their ranks? It is certainly within the realm of possibility, is it not? In the meantime, maybe you could tone down the NJA pilot/union bashing as a favor to another guy that proudly wears the "wings of gold." IMHO, the NJA pilots should be applauded for their determination and strength in securing an industry leading contract in the fractional world. All pilots in the fractional flying industry will benefit because of this contract.

 

[Going2Baja]

Archie - Perfectly Said. Miles, read it twice.

Baja.