Q: For Ex-airline guys at NetJets

[inthewind]

Guys, thanks for all the great stories about Netjets! I hope to be slingin' gear for you within the month.

 

[ozpilot]

I left Comair for Netjets at the end of the 2001 strike. I was a third year Captain at Comair.

For me it was the right decision. All the good points posted above about Netjets are pretty much true. You should be aware however, that flying for a scheduled airline – such as Comair – does have some advantages over fractional flying. Its like comparing driving a limo vs. driving a bus.

As a limo driver you will be expected to have a greater interaction with the passengers, and you will not have the level of support in the field that you have at an airline. If you piss off a passenger at an airline and they don’t come back, it has a minimal impact on the company’s bottom line. If you do it at a fractional where the owner is a multimillionaire it can mean your job.

At Comair its easy to fly a four day trip and never even talk to a passenger; At Netjets you are expected to be not only the pilot but also the customer service representative. You are also expected to be the baggage handler, caterer, aircraft cleaner, security, EMS person etc. etc. Remember that unless you are in the Falcon or the BBJ you will not have the benefit of a Flight Attendant. There’s a reason our company recurrent takes a week! Our job is not just transportation; it is to spoil our passengers rotten. At Netjets ‘whatever it takes’ means just that. Personally I like dealing with my passengers at this level, but if you think your job as a pilot is to simply fly the plane it may not be for you.

At Netjets they expect two things from their pilots: Performance and Attitude. Netjets will tell you that safety is number one and they mean it. In the year that I have been here I have seen numerous examples where the company has put safety before customer consideration. So you must be able to meet the performance standards.

Attitude is also important. Fourteen hour days are not uncommon and you will be expected to deliver the same level of service on the last leg as you did on the first. On the plus side the company is smart enough to realize that the level of service expected by our owners, at the end of the day, is delivered by the pilots. The company will go to extraordinary measures to help us deliver. If you visit Columbus take a tour of the Operations center. Half the people support the customers. Guess what the other half do? They support the pilots. I don’t recall too many of those at Comair.

The bus driver also has the advantage of a fixed schedule. As a limo driver you work schedule is subject to constant change. There are only two things you can be sure of: the company will not touch you on your days off and you will get at least 10 hours of rest each day

Does this sound like a fatigue issue? You bet it is, but here’s the big difference between Comair and Netjets. If you tell Netjets you are too tired to fly then that’s the end of the story. The company does not want you to fly fatigued. Work rules in the Comair contract are more stringent but I believe they are there because they need to be.

Bottom line: For me the disadvantages of working at Comair had everything to do with how the company treated us and little to do with the nature of the business. At Netjets the disadvantages are all related to the nature of the business which the company does its best to minimize. I love it, but its not for everyone.

Good Luck.

 

[On Your Six]

I left Comair for Netjets at the end of the 2001 strike. I was a third year Captain at Comair.

For me it was the right decision. All the good points posted above about Netjets are pretty much true. You should be aware however, that flying for a scheduled airline – such as Comair – does have some advantages over fractional flying. Its like comparing driving a limo vs. driving a bus.

As a limo driver you will be expected to have a greater interaction with the passengers, and you will not have the level of support in the field that you have at an airline. If you piss off a passenger at an airline and they don’t come back, it has a minimal impact on the company’s bottom line. If you do it at a fractional where the owner is a multimillionaire it can mean your job.

At Comair its easy to fly a four day trip and never even talk to a passenger; At Netjets you are expected to be not only the pilot but also the customer service representative. You are also expected to be the baggage handler, caterer, aircraft cleaner, security, EMS person etc. etc. Remember that unless you are in the Falcon or the BBJ you will not have the benefit of a Flight Attendant. There’s a reason our company recurrent takes a week! Our job is not just transportation; it is to spoil our passengers rotten. At Netjets ‘whatever it takes’ means just that. Personally I like dealing with my passengers at this level, but if you think your job as a pilot is to simply fly the plane it may not be for you.

At Netjets they expect two things from their pilots: Performance and Attitude. Netjets will tell you that safety is number one and they mean it. In the year that I have been here I have seen numerous examples where the company has put safety before customer consideration. So you must be able to meet the performance standards.

Attitude is also important. Fourteen hour days are not uncommon and you will be expected to deliver the same level of service on the last leg as you did on the first. On the plus side the company is smart enough to realize that the level of service expected by our owners, at the end of the day, is delivered by the pilots. The company will go to extraordinary measures to help us deliver. If you visit Columbus take a tour of the Operations center. Half the people support the customers. Guess what the other half do? They support the pilots. I don’t recall too many of those at Comair.

The bus driver also has the advantage of a fixed schedule. As a limo driver you work schedule is subject to constant change. There are only two things you can be sure of: the company will not touch you on your days off and you will get at least 10 hours of rest each day

Does this sound like a fatigue issue? You bet it is, but here’s the big difference between Comair and Netjets. If you tell Netjets you are too tired to fly then that’s the end of the story. The company does not want you to fly fatigued. Work rules in the Comair contract are more stringent but I believe they are there because they need to be.

Bottom line: For me the disadvantages of working at Comair had everything to do with how the company treated us and little to do with the nature of the business. At Netjets the disadvantages are all related to the nature of the business which the company does its best to minimize. I love it, but its not for everyone.

Good Luck.

Now that was a great post! Limo driver vs. bus driver - a great comparison...

 

[Archie Bunker]

The truth hurts only if it should. If this "truth" makes me an Ahole, then so be it. If you were part of a real strong union, you would have made sure the new hires received the same QOL as the current employees. I hope you apologize to every new hire.

Miles,

Just curious........who do you fly for now? Still in the military, or did you make the transition to a commercial carrier? Reason being, we share a similar past......we were (are) both Naval Aviators.

Most of the Navy/Marine Corps pilots that I know on active duty have very negative opinions of labor unions (just like you). Their idea of job security is a guard at the main gate with an M-16. They come from an autocratic society where they are the officers and "management" that lay down the law, and it is followed without question or debate. As you know, they come from a world that is perhaps a little more oriented towards "mission accomplishment" than it is about making a profit, or quality of life issues. In the military world, this all makes perfect sense, and it sounds like it describes you to a T.

After the transition to the airline flying world, a strange thing happens to most of these guys once they have lived through the labor relations process at their respective airline.......they realize that THEY are now the worker bee, and not a manager anymore. They are a unit cost to be controlled, and nothing more. Many of them learn the hard way that management's spoken word and promises mean absolutely nothing in the world of corporate CEOs, lawyers, and negotiators. They find out that maybe management isn't exactly looking out for their best interests. Words like "loyalty," "brotherhood," and "family" actually meant something to them in their military days, but when these words are uttered from the mouths of corporate America spokesmen, they all too soon realize that they are just catchy buzz words that are meaningless.

During our contract negotiations at Delta back in 2000/2001, I saw many of my former military pilot buddies that were once viciously anti-union, actually pick up a sign and walk an informational picket line. Some volunteered for duties at ALPA, while others maintained their support for the union through other methods.

I am just curious as to how you arrived at all your extremely negative views towards unions? If you are still an active duty military pilot, I can understand where you are coming from, and why you feel the way you do. If you already made the move to commercial flying, please enlighten us as to why you feel the need to badmouth unions so much; particularly the NJA guys and their union. The IBT along with the NJA pilots made leaps and bounds over their prior contract in almost every respect, setting the bar very high in terms of overall compensation and benefits. The issue of home basing is the only negative that I can see in the contract. If that is the only "bad" thing in their new contract, then they did a great job.

Who knows, maybe in the future NJA management will re-open the home basing option to lure more pilots to their ranks? It is certainly within the realm of possibility, is it not? In the meantime, maybe you could tone down the NJA pilot/union bashing as a favor to another guy that proudly wears the "wings of gold." IMHO, the NJA pilots should be applauded for their determination and strength in securing an industry leading contract in the fractional world. All pilots in the fractional flying industry will benefit because of this contract.

 

[Going2Baja]

Archie - Perfectly Said. Miles, read it twice.

Baja.

 

[ultrarunner]

7n7 sux... Plain and simple.

But with some creativity it can be acceptable. ....

A smart crew will always keep a "grounding item" in their back pocket and use it at the appropriate time.

 

[netjetwife]

Owners live all over the country--the plane was repositioned. Ferry flights, needs be, are surely in the contract the owners sign? I'm not at all surprised by your attitude, MO. Considering how badly paid the NJ pilots were at that time, helping out a few families was a mere drop in the bucket compared to what the pilots, collectively, were owed. Go rain on another parade (thread).
NJW

 

[netjetwife]

The truth hurts only if it should. If this "truth" makes me an Ahole, then so be it. If you were part of a real strong union, you would have made sure the new hires received the same QOL as the current employees. I hope you apologize to every new hire.

I'll take this one, as no one can say my family didn't fight hard for all of the pilots. My husband was an FO when he became involved in the grass roots effort that turned into StrongUnion. As much as we hated it, there came a point that we had achieved all we could for the group--as a whole--and holding up the contract---with no guarantee of getting more money for FOs--wasn't fair to the families that had waited far too long already. (Personal aside to K, S, & M--thinking of y'all!) SU did succeed in making NJ a career with a future. One that even the FOs could look forward to. The battle continues. If the other frac companies will step up to the plate and do their part, perhaps together the frac pilots can raise the bar again for every pilot, FO wages included. In the meantime, they receive the same benefits and QOL deals that were won for all the NJ pilots. I haven't heard loud complaints from that group, and the company is hiring. The Domicile question remains to be answered, but 1108 is willing to talk if the company finds they made a mistake.

 

[Semore Butts]

Archie, nice job.

Good post Arch...

 

[wolfpackpilot]

When my mom passed away last August it came faster than expected (she had cancer). I was on the next to last day in Jackson Hole and needed to get to NC. My brother called and told me to get home soon. NetJets was willing to "LEAVE" the owner, get him a charter acft and fly me straight home! I said no, we can fly the owner to ORD and I'll airline in. When we landed in MDW, there was a car waiting at the FBO to take me to ORD. I made it home in time!

I have two brothers, 1 corporate, 1 airline. At the funeral home, there were flowers from NetJets, my corporate brother had coworkers send flowers, my airline brother? NOTHING!

You cant replace things a company does like this with more money.

 

[RNObased]

Not only will they get you home but if its quicker you will fly your jet home asap. 3 years ago my mother was rushed to the ER, sister called. I called the company and within 5 mins they said take the X home. Sent the release and flight plan asap and we were gone. One thing NetJets has always done is get crew-members home in any kind of situation no questions asked. So if you are worried about this here DON'T be. This is one area NetJets does shine in.

Ditto here, wife was very sick, headed to hospital.... We were in JAC, called CP he said fuel the beast, release is on its way. Was airborne in 15mins headed home. Now if I was on the east coast I don't know if they would have done that. But it was only an 1.2 flight....

 

[MasterOfYaw]

I've been fortunate in not having any family emergencies, but I did go home early 3 times in 2004 for hurricanes. Fedex kept my next door neighbor on the road. I've only been at NJI for 5 1/2 years, and don't pretend to understand all the issues which caused the discontent at NJA, but I hope this thread sheds some light on why many of us at NJI are waiting patiently for the company to work things out for us.

 

[WillFlyFoCookie]

This really is a great thread which speaks volumes. It's like a breath of fresh air compared to many of the stuff that's typically on these boards.

 

[shamrock]

This really is a great thread which speaks volumes. It's like a breath of fresh air compared to many of the stuff that's typically on these boards.

I agree. I had only fleetingly considered giving NetJets a shot up until recently, meaning the past few days, but reading this stuff has kind of opened my eyes a bit. And the fact that several NetJets guys have taken the time to PM me about the job speaks well of the kind of people there.

 

[Homer Jay]

I just got my application in the mail today, and after reading everything in this thread, it reaffirms why I am looking to get out of the airlines and into NetJets. It would be so nice to be treated like a human being again. Thanks to all the NetJets guys that have posted their experiences. You have made my decision even easier...

 

[RedPrairie]

How junior is LAX? Can a newhire get LAX right out of training? Thanks

 

[AirBear8]

How junior is LAX? Can a newhire get LAX right out of training? Thanks

Right now they're giving new hires their choice of the 5 domiciles. I doubt LAX will ever get very senior when there's PBI & DAL available (no state income tax in either domicile).

AirBear

 

[Hogprint]

Don't forget NJA has been very supportive of guys that were effected by natural disasters. The last couple of years they have sent folks home to shore up any loose ends.

I think the first big one that hit FLA caught them off guard, but in the end they did the right thing.

PS Wolfpack

Sorry to hear about your mom. I've lost two family members to cancer over the last five years and I know how that disease can drag on or unexpectedly take a turn for the worse.

 

[shamrock]

Right now they're giving new hires their choice of the 5 domiciles.

Is there a possibility of ever going back to the "gateway" system?

A friend of mine mentioned something about that but wasn't sure if the gateways are completely out of the question for those hired after the new contract.

 

[netjetwife]

It all depends on how the hiring process goes. 1108 is standing by to renegotiate that portion of the contract should the company ask for relief. We have heard the sound of grumbling from pilots who are considering NJA. My husband hasn't heard if the company is experiencing any difficulties yet, but based on their past performance I don't expect them to be too forthcoming on the subject--sorry. NJ pilots no longer give things away for free so we can expect both sides to hold their cards close. For now, my advice is what you see is what you get. Hopefully it will change in the future. I think the policy is wrong.