Q: For Ex-airline guys at NetJets

[kommutrdog]

I am a regional captain with 6500+ hours and am seriously thinking of pursuing the fractional industry...specifically NetJets.

If there are any guys/ladies that have left the regionals or even other carriers to fly at NetJets, how does it compare ?

7 on/ 7 off has its positives, but also negatives...any advice would be appreciated. ( 7 off great, but 7 on, away from family sounds tough...do the positives outweigh the negatives ??)

How is the adjustment ? I won't mind throwing bags or cleaning up at all. Also, I wouldn't mind working for a company that doesn't mickle-and-dime me for everything.

Please reply. I am trying to make the best career move for myself, and more importantly, for my family. Basically, I'm looking at JetBlue, AirTran & others vs. NetJets. They are different animals, and I would like to get some genuine feedback.

Thanks, in advance for any advice/input.

 

[acaTerry]

I am a regional captain with 6500+ hours and am seriously thinking of pursuing the fractional industry...specifically NetJets.

If there are any guys/ladies that have left the regionals or even other carriers to fly at NetJets, how does it compare ?

7 on/ 7 off has its positives, but also negatives...any advice would be appreciated. ( 7 off great, but 7 on, away from family sounds tough...do the positives outweigh the negatives ??)

How is the adjustment ? I won't mind throwing bags or cleaning up at all. Also, I wouldn't mind working for a company that doesn't mickle-and-dime me for everything.

Please reply. I am trying to make the best career move for myself, and more importantly, for my family. Basically, I'm looking at JetBlue, AirTran & others vs. NetJets. They are different animals, and I would like to get some genuine feedback.

Thanks, in advance for any advice/input.

I am about to hit the road, but pm me and I'll be happy to give my opinion on NJA. In short, I'm very pleased after having worked at two airlines. If it were me I'd go NJA long before JB, AirTran or SWA. But that's just me.

 

[Guitar Guy]

I flew for a commuter for 4 years before coming to NJA. The adjustment was very easy - better equipment, better benefits and with the new contract, the larger paycheck is much easier to accept.

Until this past tour, I had never been on the 7/7 schedule. Normally I would fly 5-6 day trips, which was perhaps a bit longer than average at my old job. However, I found the transition pretty easy - just pack a few extra pieces of clothing.

My wife has gotten used to me being away and while she misses me one extra day on the 7/7 schedule, she says she really likes having me at home for a week at a time.

If you have any other questions, please feel free to send me a PM.

 

[wolfpackpilot]

If there are any guys/ladies that have left the regionals or even other carriers to fly at NetJets, how does it compare ?

Yes, I left.

No comparison at all. Regional flying was like eating dinner on the show "Fear Factor". NetJets is like having Paula Dean, Bobby Flay and Emerald as your private chefs...

 

[OCP]

I'm also looking at the same move. How does the 7 on 7 off thing with the family. Also are the first and last days really WORK or are they travel to get you home days?

 

[shamrock]

7 on/ 7 off has its positives, but also negatives

That's pretty much the sole reason I haven't applied at NetJets. Well, that and the fact that I don't have an ATP, but I could fix that issue pretty quickly. I've talked to a friend of mine who's been there for 5 years and I think I could live with just about everything but the 7 on/7 off. 7 off would be great but I think 7 on would kill me.

That being said, if that's going to be my only issue I might give them a shot anyway. With the way things are going at the airlines it doesn't look like I would lose a whole heck of a lot by taking a chance.

 

[ghostrider64]

7n7 sux... Plain and simple.

But with some creativity it can be acceptable. One sniffle here and there can help you maintain family life and sanity. We get 12 sick days per year here that can be banked. I think 5 years worth. BTW I used sick days more often on the 17 day schedule than I do on the 7n7.

Good luck with your career choices. But my only word of advice would be to follow the money$. We aren't broke and neither are our customers and owners. And I doubt they ever will be.

 

[T-1GUY]

I have been leaning towards Netjets as well. I am curious about the vacation policy. If I take a week of vacation, does that mean that I would have three weeks off in a row??? Also, What is the 1st and last day like? Do you fly all day, then deadhead home on the red eye? If I live in Dallas, will I start many trips out of this area?? Any feedback would be great....

 

[Guitar Guy]

What is the 1st and last day like? Do you fly all day, then deadhead home on the red eye? If I live in Dallas, will I start many trips out of this area?? Any feedback would be great....

It seems to depend a bit on the fleet and the pilot's domicile or gateway. I'm CMH-based and I seem to fly planes into and out of CMH a lot, though that's been changing over the past few months. As for getting home late, I do find it pretty rare to be home by, say, 6 PM on my last day. But remember, the duty-day limit is 14 hours. They have to get you home within 14 hours or pay a penalty, which is one day's pay at the overtime rate. To balance all of that, several of my friends in the DEN area say that most of their first and last duty days are simply airlining - no flying on their part.

The company, I think, in the future wants to try to schedule crews such that they start and end at certain cities (hence the domicile plan) in order to increase "efficiency" and cut down on airline costs. But that will be tricky because even though new-hires will be placed into one of 5 cities, the pilots on property prior to ratification can use a large number of airports around the country as their HBA.

 

[JustInfo]

Yes, you get 2 weeks vacation which coupled with the 7 on 7 off results in 3 weeks off for both vacation weeks. After 5 years you get 3 weeks vacation per year and after 10 you get 4 weeks.

1st and last days vary. If I get a short airline first day, I will usually fly 1 or 2 legs when I get there. Same applies on last day, if I am far from home (opposite coast) then I spend all day just airlining home. Close to home I may fly 2-3 legs and then airline home or even fly the jet home (that is the best, airlining sucks BAD!)

Not sure about starting in Dallas, I know that is the intention of the whole stupid domicile thing so you don't have to airline, but my experience is it won't work that way.

 

[OCP]

On this 7&7, how many legs are normal? (per day)

 

[BengalsFan]

what equipment is most junior at Net?

 

[Kikuchiyo]

My understanding is that the reserve 18-day lines are normally being held by junior pilots, yes? I've also heard that the 18 day reserve line isn't anything like a legacy carrier reserve line; rather, one can expect to fly quite a bit during their reserve period. True?

Doing the math from the tables at Airline Pilot Central, the daily rate is the same regardless of schedule, the difference in pay coming from the extra 34 days per year. So is it possible to continue to bid and hold reserve lines for the extra $?

 

[AirBear8]

I spent 14 years at US Airways and 2 years at Mesa afterwards. I like NetJets enough that I won't go back to Airways when and if they ever recall me. The pay is very close to what I'd make at US Airways and the benefits and job security are much better. I've even quit trying to get on with SWA or JetBlue. There's just too much turmoil in the Part 121 airline industry right now.

I'm on the Ultra. That and the Hawker 400XP (aka BeechJet 400) are junior for Captains and to a lesser extent for F/O's. About half my trips all I do is airline the 1st and last day. Sometimes I fly an Ultra from my home base, sometimes I bring one back in at the end of a trip. I just started doing 7 day trips, my first was on 12-26 and I just finished my 2nd trip (reserve schedule). On the 1st trip I was supposed to airline and fly one leg but thanks to Delta MX all I did was go to the hotel on day 1. I wound up just airlining home the last day and was in by noon (not typical). My 2nd trip I drove a rental car about 80 miles and went to the hotel on day one. The last day I was on the opposite coast and scheduled to just airline home but overnight they added a pax leg so we flew that and then airlined home. I got in around 9pm, again not typical to be that late. The 14 hour duty day applies even if you're just airlining home. You can waive it and collect the overtime if you prefer, or you can make them get you a hotel room and collect an extra $321 for getting home after midnight (1st year F/O rate)

Legs per day vary widely from fleet to fleet. On the Ultra most legs are under 2 hours and it's unusual to fly more than 4 legs per day. The most flying I've done at NetJets in one day was last summer when I flew Corpus Cristi, TX to Kissimmee, FL, fuel stop in Louisana, then on to Scottsdale, AZ. About 8.5 hours total and they still wanted us to ferry to LAX but we turned it down.

Reserve was junior assigned on some fleets but only around 54 pilots out of 2300 had that happen. No problem getting reserve if you want the extra $$$. This is not airline reserve. Normally you either work or you don't. For January my tentative schedule was posted on the company website and so far they've adhered to it. I'm doing 7 day trips with 4 or 5 days off in between. If my next day off isn't a mandatory one (like 4 days off after a 7 day trip) then I have to call in by 1900 to make sure I'm not working the next day. But if they keep me on 7 day trips then there's not much room to change my schedule.

I think I covered all the questions, if not let me know.

AirBear

 

[netjetwife]

Our family has adjusted to the schedule. As our daughter has gotten older (turning 5 this month) she can deal with her dad being gone a week at a time. Our 10 yr old son complained bitterly about his dad being underpaid last year. Now his attitude is closer to ours--the pay is worth it. His suggestions for his dad to become a mailman have dropped off.

Do a lot with your children when you're home and they'll forgive you when you're gone. Call home every night and bring them treats from the road. Good luck with your decision, which is a family affair.

 

[Fozzy]

His suggestions for his dad to become a mailman have dropped off.

NJAwife,
You son is wise well beyond his years.

 

[OCP]

Ok say you have a problem at home and you are in the middle of a 7 day trip. Would the company help you out to get home ASAP?

 

[FLYLOW22]

Really there is no comparison. I watch so many of my 121 buddies scramble to do their laundry during the 2 days they get off a free from work and or commuting just so they can get back on the bus and go to work... if there is a seat.

The only thing I missed was my "4 day family".... working together as a team of more than 2 or 3 people towards a common goal. The 5 crew dynamic is different that 2 or 3. I got over that quickly though.

Food is better.

Terminals are better (you can actually get outside without a body cavity search).

Pay is by far better than the regionals/nationals and some majors.

Benes are far better than even the majors.

No pension... but the man takes that away from the little guy anyway. It's the cool thing to do these days. 401K with 50% match to the federal limit. Cha Ching.

7 days on, 7 days off or 18 day random groupings of work days.

Growth that isn't tied to labor give backs (only to have the growth stopped after 20% of the promised growth and farmed out to a contract carrier).

New equipment.

Sports car like flying compared to a big bus or a semi. Very sporty.

You will not know where you will be on Wednesday but who give a rip. Pack for Barbados to Buffalo... it pays the same. Not knowing where I was going did takes some getting used to. Now it's kinda fun to guess where you will end up. So long as my food is there I could care less though.

2 weeks of vacation that turn into 6 with the 7n7. Ummm.... it does not get better than that.

Domicile basing for newhires without the ability to jumpseat or commute for free... sucks.

 

[Mach92]

Ok say you have a problem at home and you are in the middle of a 7 day trip. Would the company help you out to get home ASAP?

Not only will they get you home but if its quicker you will fly your jet home asap. 3 years ago my mother was rushed to the ER, sister called. I called the company and within 5 mins they said take the X home. Sent the release and flight plan asap and we were gone. One thing NetJets has always done is get crew-members home in any kind of situation no questions asked. So if you are worried about this here DON'T be. This is one area NetJets does shine in.

 

[VVJM265]

Not only will they get you home but if its quicker you will fly your jet home asap. 3 years ago my mother was rushed to the ER, sister called. I called the company and within 5 mins they said take the X home. Sent the release and flight plan asap and we were gone. One thing NetJets has always done is get crew-members home in any kind of situation no questions asked. So if you are worried about this here DON'T be. This is one area NetJets does shine in.

WOW! Impressive.

 

[CA1900]

Not only will they get you home but if its quicker you will fly your jet home asap. 3 years ago my mother was rushed to the ER, sister called. I called the company and within 5 mins they said take the X home.

Wow! Just wow... When I had a tooth problem (ouch) in the middle of the trip, my airline said, "OK, we'll get a reserve to cover the rest of your trip." When I asked about getting flights back to my domicile, they said, "oh, you're on your own to get yourself home; we can't positive-space you." From the middle of nowhere. Nice teamwork, eh?

I'm patiently waiting for my NJA application to arrive. It's looking better and better every day.

 

[FLYLOW22]

My favorite was when I was flying with a guy who's wife had to go into induced labor the next day. Baby was a bit late and lost some weight in the oven. At the completion of our day in TEB he walked out and said the company was sending us to AZO. He told me why and we rocketed off.

It's the only time I have voluntarily flown over 14 hours of duty and I was happy to do it to get the big man home to his wife and 3 other kids.

The company flew us directly to his home airport because his wife was going to have a baby. Awesome. Made me really wonder why the same consideration didn't transfer to so many other areas at NJA during negotiations. It could have been so different.

Oh well. I like my bat.

 

[Troy208]

I have a question?. I live in Miami. How would I get to work?. Is it out of my own pocket or are their commuter agreements with other airlines?

 

[Going2Baja]

Not only will they get you home but if its quicker you will fly your jet home asap. 3 years ago my mother was rushed to the ER, sister called. I called the company and within 5 mins they said take the X home. Sent the release and flight plan asap and we were gone. One thing NetJets has always done is get crew-members home in any kind of situation no questions asked. So if you are worried about this here DON'T be. This is one area NetJets does shine in.

Unbelievable - Speaks volumes as to the integrity of the company!!

Baja.

 

[Going2Baja]

I have a question?. I live in Miami. How would I get to work?. Is it out of my own pocket or are their commuter agreements with other airlines?

How long of a drive is it to West Palm Beach, FL (PBI)? No jumpseats available.

 

[Guitar Guy]

I have a question?. I live in Miami. How would I get to work?. Is it out of my own pocket or are their commuter agreements with other airlines?

Assuming you get PBI as your domicile, you'd be on your own to get up there for work. There are no commuter agreements or jumpseat agreements either.

You'll briefed for your first day of a tour on your last day off, usually in the late afternoon/early evening. At that point, you could determine when you need to leave home in order to be in position for your duty assignment.

 

[Fozzy]

Oh well. I like my bat.

:laugh:

 

[miles otoole]

I have a question?. I live in Miami. How would I get to work?. Is it out of my own pocket or are their commuter agreements with other airlines?

If you are assigned LAX as a domicile, the union will take care of you.

 

[Fozzy]

If you are assigned LAX as a domicile, the union will take care of you.

Get a life.

 

[miles otoole]

Unbelievable - Speaks volumes as to the integrity of the company!!

Baja.

No kidding-especially as the emergencies were flown on owner's aircraft. I wonder how many last minute owner emergencies the company regularly turns down. Were the owners reimbursed by the company?
A great deal for the crews, however, it's the owners who pay for this. Is this emergency thing in the contract?