PVD closed: Aircraft slid off runway

[paulsalem]

Any new news on what happened?

 

[IronCityBlue]

Any new news on what happened?

Did someone say something?

Hey ladies. How's it going.

 

[Oakum_Boy]

Any new news on what happened?

The airline regrets to inform you the crew slid off the runway because they can't afford anything better.

 

[pilotdiscretion]

I heard a few days ago that it was an unstabilized approach that resulted in an almost uncontrollable landing. Runway contamination had little to do with this.

 

[NEDude]

Just had a quick question, the runway incursion was just recently with United???? Because I thought PVD was a ASDE airport???? Tower not using the ground radar or something?

When I went through new-hire training at my first airline in March of 2001 we watched a video about the PVD incident.

 

[zasca]

Talked to a whiskey captain and he was told the FO flew an unstabilized approach, at a few hundo the captain took over, then tried to save the landing. Hit the ground at 1600fpm (hearsay) and that may have collapsed the gear. The weather was not that bad and the runway had good braking.

 

[twighead]

I'm no expert, but 1600 fpm sounds a little much. I think that would have done more then just collapse the gear.

 

[Rally]

I'm no expert, but 1600 fpm sounds a little much. I think that would have done more then just collapse the gear.

Yea did'nt the suiox city aircraft (DC-10) hit he ground at 1000 fpm? Look what happened to that.

 

[Crossky]

Talked to a whiskey captain and he was told the FO flew an unstabilized approach, at a few hundo the captain took over, then tried to save the landing. Hit the ground at 1600fpm (hearsay) and that may have collapsed the gear. The weather was not that bad and the runway had good braking.

Yep, heard that the PF was a low time FO on probation. Didn't hear that the CA took over as PF though. The CA would've had while the GPWS was saying 'sink rate sink rate pull up' in IMC inside the FAF. If they had a strong quartering XW at ALT shearing to a basically calm wind on the ground (reported) wouldn't that set up the possibility of getting misaligned with the RWY and high? I think so.

This accident is going to be another wake up call to regional crews everywhere: GPWS 'sink rate' calls in IMC or an unstabilized approach down low means go around; CA's exercise your PIC perogative and fly the plane if you're not completely confident in your FO.

 

[WSurf]

This accident is going to be another wake up call to regional crews everywhere: GPWS 'sink rate' calls in IMC or an unstabilized approach down low means go around; CA's exercise your PIC perogative and fly the plane if you're not completely confident in your FO.

I think you are gonna see more of this with 200-400hr pilots getting hired at the regionals.

 

[LearLove]

looks like they landed on 5. from the jordan arrival or just arriving over HTO - BOS center/PVD Appr will many times keep you high then slam you down in close to join the loc/gs for the ils to 5.

at the same time they want you to keep your speed up. you see where this leads.

straight into 5 from the arrival, slam dunk and keep speed up - no monday morning qb'n but I wouldn't be supprised if this was a contributing factor - seen it many times going to PVD.

 

[Oakum_Boy]

Why is the FO doing the landing in those conditions? Do you remember when you could let your FO fly and not worry about it? Not anymore!!! Welcome to the third world!!!!!

 

[paulsalem]

Why is the FO doing the landing in those conditions?

From the NTSB Prelim:
Weather conditions were reported as wind 050 at 3 knots, overcast 300 feet, visibility 1 ½ miles in light rain and mist, temperature 3, dewpoint 2, barometric pressure 29.87 and pressure falling rapidly. Approximately 4 minutes prior to the accident, an arriving B737 reported braking action good. The runway condition was reported as wet at the time of the event.


Doesn't seem that bad to me.

 

[Kaman]

I feel really bad for both members of the crew on the Air Wisky flight in PVD. Anyone can botch a landing, however the industry isn't all that forgiving of mistakes. I know as a fellow pilot, I am forgiving of mistakes, because I can and often do make mistakes. It's avoiding the "big one" that is most important.
As a Captain/Check Airman I feel that there is a very thin line between letting your F/O make some mistakes and operating safely and within the standards. This problem was created at the supervisory level by placing the burden of a low-time pilot at the controls of a high performance jet aircraft. Unfortunately, we will continue to see more accidents like this in the future...In the meantime...TRAP the errors early on and STOP the "big one".

Regards,

ex-Navy Rotorhead

 

[MusicMan]

I think sadly the result of this is going to be captains using much greater discretion when deciding who will fly each leg. Used to be different with 3000 hr new hires at Whiskey, but 300 hrs and guys who have never shot an actual approach down to minimums are changing things. F/O's, don't take it personally if you are low time and this happens. When we were 300 hr pilots, we were just getting our feet wet instructing in Pipers.

 

[B1900FO]

I think sadly the result of this is going to be captains using much greater discretion when deciding who will fly each leg. Used to be different with 3000 hr new hires at Whiskey, but 300 hrs and guys who have never shot an actual approach down to minimums are changing things. F/O's, don't take it personally if you are low time and this happens. When we were 300 hr pilots, we were just getting our feet wet instructing in Pipers.

The scary thing is, these 300 hr FOs have to become Captain at some point.

So thats fine, don't let them fly. Then you'll have a Captain whos never shot an approach down to minimums.

Hmmmm.....

 

[paulsalem]

I don't think that's what he meant.

If the CA isn't comfortable letting the F/O fly, then he should say something. No matter what amount of experience the F/O has.

That being said, I'm not a CA, but the Wx on this approach wasn't that bad in my opinion. Braking Action good, no frozen precip, and a temp well above freezing.

 

[samballs]

I think sadly the result of this is going to be captains using much greater discretion when deciding who will fly each leg. Used to be different with 3000 hr new hires at Whiskey, but 300 hrs and guys who have never shot an actual approach down to minimums are changing things. F/O's, don't take it personally if you are low time and this happens. When we were 300 hr pilots, we were just getting our feet wet instructing in Pipers.

Actually we should be looking at the Captain on this one. The FO may have screwed up, but the Capt should have had the exp. to realize this take the controls and go missed. According to this place he took the the controls and messed up what was already a screwed situation.

 

[1973Arrow]

Talked to a whiskey captain and he was told the FO flew an unstabilized approach, at a few hundo the captain took over, then tried to save the landing. Hit the ground at 1600fpm (hearsay) and that may have collapsed the gear. The weather was not that bad and the runway had good braking.

Considering that the NTSB nor AWAC has said anything, I find it hard to believe any numbers and/or stories that anyone comes up with...Except for my one friend that is a senior check airman at mainline...

 

[BoilerUP]

Considering that the NTSB nor AWAC has said anything

AS WELL IT SHOULD BE.

Fly safe out there, folks...