PSA Takes the 900s

[BoilerUP]

screw you!! its time for a revolution to begin. It's time for PSA to vote in those 900s! Screw all of you who try to insult them! You not in their shoes you losers! Heres to PSA guys with enough Bal*s to vote for the future! viva la resistance to pricks!

Hiya Duhangelo!

 

[LowlyPropCapt]

Wsurf...sorry but your wrong......we won't be a click behind mesa.... If you'd post factual information, you wouldn't hear from me/us/whomever...get it straight...

If anything what I see is your hoping PSA passes it up.. So PDT can have jets. Say all you want, regarding how "PDT" will vote , how you'll do this, that etc........It all changes when it's in your lap....

I guess you ignored my post after Wsurf's, so here I go again...

PSA's proposed rates is essentially parity with Mesa's 90 seat rates. Sounds o.k. until you consider the following data:

Year 1 CA:
PSA: 55.95
JetBlue: 71.00
US Airways: 79.00

Year 5 CA:
PSA: 68.59
JetBlue: 77.00
US Airways: 86.00

Year 10 CA:
PSA: 78.94
Jetblue: 85.00
US Airways: 95.00 (top of scale)

You have to make it to 18 years of service at PSA in 2009 to match the US Airways 90 seat rate. The differences in FO pay are just as stark.

Question: Why is it that you at PSA are worth roughly $20/hour less than someone at mainline who flies the exact same size of equipment? Newsflash! You are not... As a matter of fact with the crummy work rules you have you are worth more, just for putting up with the B.S.

I will say this until I am blue in the face... You deserve 90 seat pay for 90 seat flying. If your airplane says "express" on the side that does not change. By voting yes on this agreement, you are essentially agreeing to another "B" scale arrangement and saying that you are second class pilots. In addition, you are undermining every single pilot group who will eventually have to negotiate 90 seat rates by setting the bar so low. It only takes one pilot group to set a precedent... And it takes only one pilot group to break that very same precedent.

Don't give me any crud about it being a blended rate either... It doesn't "all come out in the wash." Do the math, you still come out behind. Why did you agree to a blended rate anyway? For the company's convienience? Are you kidding me? Even a messed up place like PDT gets the -300 and -100/200 pay straight most of the time.

Remember... You at PSA are a small pilot group. If manangement wants the jets to be there, then be there they shall. THAT DECISION IS MADE INDEPENDENT OF WHAT YOU ARE PAID. Don't let them pinch pennies using your lives, and don't bury the rest of us out of greed and stupidity.

 

[WSurf]

Just to clarify, Surf, what you quoted wasn't by surf'nfly but by newman.

Anyways, ya, they USED to be a nice place to work. so what's happened? Contractors, flying for less. What's the combination of being a nice place to work? Usually what your paycheck is at the end of the day, And your quality of life, These two things come with being paid what the market can bear, maybe a little more. And usually the QOL comes with Bigger Fleet. Here comes Mesa, etc al. Fee for departure blah blah blah. They suck off the tit of ML and are like a bunch of roaches.


BravoWhisky is exactly right. Which I've also been saying. You are asking individual carriers to make a stand (union wise) While the national does absolutely nothing. What guidance, planning, long term vision they have for labor relations. All I see is, lets keep the dues money up as much as possible. and try to build contracts via stepping stones.
The Pay for departure task force???? WTF...should have been done 10 yrs ago. What the DCI companies have started doing, (which I think is the main part of why the Task force was formed anyways but different story) should have been done on DAY one the whipsaw was sharpened. The individuals are already brainwashed, that ....fly for the lower pay, it's just a stepping stone, You'll get your 1000hrs and move on. You must supplement low ticket prices and 10,000,000 bonuses for mgmtn by working for nothing.....

I agree with you 100% about ALPA National should step in! But you have to stand up for yourself also!!!! I know its a tuff call...... FO's see upgrades... And its cool flying bigger equipement... But enough is a enough!! Just like Prop said.... Is mainline worth more then you!!! Remember these airplanes will be taking over old mainline routes. And by you flying them for less money means more Big Regional Jets and less mainline Jets.... And the stepping stone you talk about is a much more further reach!!!
I am not saying ask for the world...... but jeez... get something out of the deal!!!

 

[dooork]

Spoken like a true dumb sh$t!!!
Mesa voted for growth, and they were all excited...... 3 years later they are still bitching about QOL and Pay!!! The same will happen at PSA..... New airplanes hit the property.... wow CRJ900... wow, mom and dad I am big airline pilot making 20k a year to fly a mainline size airplane!!!
2 Years from now.. PSA folks will be on here bitchin again about pay and qol... Its just an endless cycle.... The WO's used to be a great place to come and work.... They for the most part had better work rules and pay then most.. Those days seem to going away!!!

Vote it down...

We did not vote for growth ass munch! Learn what you are talking about........yea this should be fun.

 

[aviatrix]

oooopps... i already sent my cover letter saying CONGRATS on the 900's...probably won't be getting that call now

I just threw up a little bit...in my mouth...

 

[WSurf]

We did not vote for growth ass munch! Learn what you are talking about........yea this should be fun.

You will be ass munch!

And correct me if I am wrong... But if those 900's get voted in... PSA will take over MESA's position as the bottom feeders!!!

 

[check6]

so basically what your saying, is that i'm willing to work as a flight instructor at an FBO that has one plane(150), fly maybe if i'm lucky 25 hours a month, put up with all kinds of the BS that goes along with small airport politics. prepare a resume, cover, network, and actually view some of the BS that goes on flightinfo.com....alllll b/c my goal is to get hired to work somewhere that pays me more than $14/hr. thats why regional airline pilots are not getting paid what YOU think they should. some how i thought i'd have less impact on the airline industry than that. Hey "victor" i'm just a squirrel trying to get a nut.

Don't start fishing for sympathy on this thread my friend. Regional airline pilots do work in the trenches so anything we can get that was better than before becomes important.

It sounds to me like you need to find a new instructing job. I too instructed at a dump with 3 172's and no students, then I found a new job teaching in glass 172's and a seneca. Less than 3 months later I became an FO at Piedmont. But, this was after instructing for two years. The first 1000 hours are the toughest but you'll get it. Just be persistant.

 

[check6]

*I* can't imagine why US Air would give PSA 900s and then take away 200s - although maybe that makes sense for some obscure reason.

I can because Doug Parker can. The only problem with all the express carriers that mainline has is some are contracted out(Chautaqua, AWAC, etc.). Those are the ones that we can't get rid of. So what does that leave? PSA.

 

[check6]

Besides... lemme check... my 50 seat jet rate at my longevity alone is 2.25 more an hour than yours. The jet payrate in my contract. The one signed in 2002, when we had Dash 8s and you had Dorniers- remember? You're actually the cheaper labor! Whooooops!

Don't play into a crackhead whipsaw. YOU are getting the planes- get that into your increasingly paranoid head - for a reason. They can control the product! Now can they control the pilot group at will? Only if you let them.

Ha HA. . .I love it!! This is true. Piedmont's seniority demands way more in wages than the fledgling jet pilots. This is probably one reason PDT is stuck where it is(no offense to the senior guys).

Again, PDT's own true enemy is our management.

 

[Jpilot23]

It sounds to me like you need to find a new instructing job. I too instructed at a dump with 3 172's and no students, then I found a new job teaching in glass 172's and a seneca. Less than 3 months later I became an FO at Piedmont. But, this was after instructing for two years. The first 1000 hours are the toughest but you'll get it. Just be persistant.

Fbo with 3 planes, glass cockpits, seneca, instructing for a WHOLE 2 years.....whewwwww buddy, that sure is some hardcore digging in them there trenches.

but on serious note thank you for the words of encouragement.

 

[Newman55]

Fbo with 3 planes, glass cockpits, seneca, instructing for a WHOLE 2 years.....whewwwww buddy, that sure is some hardcore digging in them there trenches.

but on serious note thank you for the words of encouragement.

I say good for anyone that finds a way to get to the airlines ASAP. Senority is everything. That is the one thing everyone on here preaches senority is everything. Anyone who takes a shortcut should be commended for their cleverness. The quicker the better. 2 years instructing is 2 years of senority down the toilet.

 

[check6]

No, no, no. The first place I worked at had 3 crappy 172's. I moved on to a place where I taught in glass 172's and a seneca. The point of the whole story is that I moved my butt and pretty much started over at another instructing job only to move into an FO position shortly there after.

So, have some initiative and quit wallowing in your own pain. This seems to be the theme of this thread. Grow some balls.

On another note, I resent all those who are telling the PDTers to stop encouraging PSA to not take the jets so WE can get the offer. The PDT/ALG pilot group is not one to be messed with(Remember the first time around).

Yes we do want new equipment, but that's because we fly a bunch of really tired old planes with Mx problems up the ying yang, not because we want to look cool.

 

[check6]

2 years instructing is 2 years of senority down the toilet.

I know. If I had it my way, I'd be a captain right out of college.

 

[ReverseSensing]

Anyone who takes a shortcut should be commended for their cleverness.

Anyone? So scabs are clever? Are you for real?

 

[Newman55]

No, no, no. The first place I worked at had 3 crappy 172's. I moved on to a place where I taught in glass 172's and a seneca. The point of the whole story is that I moved my butt and pretty much started over at another instructing job only to move into an FO position shortly there after.

So, have some initiative and quit wallowing in your own pain. This seems to be the theme of this thread. Grow some balls.

hear hear! Instructing is basically just a waste of senority. On a side note whatever the PSA pilots do there should be no whining no matter how they vote. If they get the planes I say good for them. If they don't then good for whoever gets them.

 

[ReverseSensing]

Instructing is basically just a waste of senority.

Not to mention being a really good flying education. You, my friend, are a waste of seniority.

 

[PCL_128]

Anyone? So scabs are clever? Are you for real?

Pay no attention. Newman55 is just Duh'Angeho's backup screen name. Just one more name to add to the ignore list.

 

[COOPERVANE]

Jpilot 23,

And how many years have you instructed?

You seem to have NO idea about how this industry works.



"some how i thought i'd have less impact on the airline industry than that. Hey "victor" i'm just a squirrel trying to get a nut"


This is the problem. You are EXACTLY what is wrong with this job. It is not you as an individual, it is all the shortcutting, immediate gratification types JUST LIKE YOU that we are angry at.

Go fly cargo. It will make you a better pilot. Unless you don't care about that. Judging from your attitude, You don't

 

[Newman55]

Anyone? So scabs are clever? Are you for real?

That depends on the situation. If the strike is resolved they are not clever cause they they hit the street anyway. If it is not resolved then they are on top of the senority list. The problem with that is the consequences. If that is your final destination it is clever. If it is not then it is career suicide. I myself don't intend on being one. They make their decisions and have to live with them. It is a clever way to get to the top of the list. Its the wrong decision but speaking technically they are clever. For the most part they are not clever though because they are only patches to the problem and rarely last. NOTE: In no way am I saying scabs are good. They are still ahorrable people in my book

 

[check6]

This whole thing is silly.

I think mainline is being stupid for not opening there own eyes and realizing that they too are going to be flying 90 seaters. Why not just order more embraers? Growth at the mainline level would be better than growth at the WO level.

Did the Mechanics in SBY really walk out today?

 

[COOPERVANE]

I always find it interesting that ALL pilots, every one, that get a job at a regional with <1000 hours think that they are competant and belong there. All pilots, every one, that came in with 2500-3000 after flying freight and/or instructing think 1000 is too little. Why is that? Do they POSSIBLY know something you don't?

Nah, they are just jealous of your superb flying skills. After all "hate the game not the playa" right?

 

[Newman55]

Pay no attention. Newman55 is just Duh'Angeho's backup screen name. Just one more name to add to the ignore list.

Im not this DuhAngelo fellow you speak of but I am definately an R&B fan. I think I found myself a new avatar Thanks for the idea.

 

[SuperKooter]

Good for PSA, growth and job security is most important then pay.

 

[PCL_128]

I'm sorry, I couldn't hear you. Could you speak up?

This message is hidden because Newman55 is on your ignore list.</SPAN>

 

[Newman55]

SUPERKOOTER,
You suck monkey Di%k all day long, you f$$$%%% Di$kwad!!!
You're so used to bending over with your pants around your ankles, you have lost touch of what it means to be a man!!!!

While superkooter may say outrageous things he does have a point. Sometimes being a man means not giving into peer pressure, holding your ground and doing what you truly think is best for you and your pilot group. Those who give into peer pressure are the ones bending over for everyone else.

 

[IdRtherBsailing]

Good for PSA, growth and job security is most important then pay.

PSA will get the 90 seaters with or without your help. Its a matter of survival.

Also Growth is important true but at what level? This industry is like a water balloon, lets say one side of the balloon is the regionals and the other side is mainline. If the regional side grows bigger then the mainline side will shrink. If bigger airplanes are coming to this level we will all be here at the regionals a bit longer. You are gonna want that pay.

Crew costs are only 3%-6% of the airlines total cost. If they need the planes they will get them.

 

[Newman55]

PSA will get the 90 seaters with or without your help. Its a matter of survival.

Also Growth is important true but at what level? This industry is like a water balloon, lets say one side of the balloon is the regionals and the other side is mainline. If the regional side grows bigger then the mainline side will shrink. If bigger airplanes are coming to this level we will all be here at the regionals a bit longer. You are gonna want that pay.

Crew costs are only 3%-6% of the airlines total cost. If they need the planes they will get them.

If mainline shrinks then so be it. You yourself say the planes are going to go where they need to go. Scope is an artifical restriction that ultimately hinders the ability to do buisness. The time has come to stop focusing on mainline. Mainline in 2006 is worlds apart from Mainline in 1999. The focus should be if the mainline sized planes come to the regionals then its time to stop resisting and start working on making the regionals more like mainline.

 

[ReverseSensing]

Scope is an artifical restriction that ultimately hinders the ability to do buisness.

Okay, that does it. You're ignored.

 

[gcsass]

[The focus should be if the mainline sized planes come to the regionals then its time to stop resisting and start working on making the regionals more like mainline.[/quote]

We have a winner!!!!!! That's what this whole argument is about. $59 an hour 3rd yr Capt/$25 an hour 3rd yr FO is not "more like mainline"...it is replacing mainline, not to mention the QOL aspects. In an earlier post someone mentioned getting more 90 seaters at mainline. Why? They are going to get us to fly them for less, why bother getting any 90 seaters? Does it make financial sense?