Pressure on NWA pilots for 70 seaters

[Flechas]

Better yet, lets hope oil continues to go up. Let the weed out begin. I dream of the day when the desert is full of RJ's.

That will happen after you retire, so don't even stress about it.

 

[mjs]

Until fairly recently the Northwest pilots had in there contract the right to restrict NWA from adding additional Airlinks. Not only do their recent contract changes allow for a third airlink (in the event a competitor folds an associated regional could be brought in to the family), it specificly prohibits (from my understanding) XJ or 9E from doing that new flying.

I can understand the desire to swoop in and start up operations immediately in such a case, but a wet-lease type of arrangement until XJ or 9E could take full opperation seems much more family friendly, to those in the existing family anyway. I sure felt sold out by this change.

They were not selling you out. This change was a guarantee to protect the concessions they were giving up. If the projected $300 mil in savings, once realized, was then used by NWA to gain additional aircraft for XJ or 9E, the pilots would have taken pay cuts in order to help XJ or 9E grow. Because (if I am not mistaken) the contracts w/ XJ & 9E require them to get their aircraft from NWA. The point of their pay cuts was to help NWA's cash on hand status not to fund additional aircraft for other carriers. It was a smart move on their part.

MS

 

[Jimdandy]

The point your provision in your contract allows anyone to get additional 50 seat flying just so long as it isn't XJ or 9E even if we bought the aircraft oursleves!

Why can everyone else but not us!

WHY?

 

[mjs]

The point your provision in your contract allows anyone to get additional 50 seat flying just so long as it isn't XJ or 9E even if we bought the aircraft oursleves!

Why can everyone else but not us!

WHY?

Maybe I am wrong, but I think the language in the contracts between NWA and XJ/9E prohibit either from operating anything BUT aircraft that are leased from NWA. This would include aircraft owned by either company.

NWA pilots were saying, "we will give you the additional flying BUT you cannot use OUR money that we are giving up in concessions to help finance the deal."

NWA MEC cannot change the terms of the agreement between NWA and XJ/9E. If those contracts were renegotiated, then an additional TA could be passed to allow XJ or 9E to do the flying. But at the time the pilots agreed to pay cuts, they had to have a guarantee the money would be used for its intended use, not to finance additional aircraft for other companies.

MS

 

[JamesD]

The money gets thier either way. This just allows NWA to have more competion to lower the Bar. And now three months later NWA is asking once again for more cuts, and I predict the'll get what they want then ask again in another three months. Its time to be smart and beat them at their own game. How to do that is the great unknown but allowing them the leverage to keep lowering the bar at any major or regional is not the answer. Alpa needs to unite all of the regionals and majors together including the LCC. Their next management at SWA is starting to ask for cuts, and they will get them. That's their status as a pilot in life. They went to a LCC for a reason, a few were because of choice but most it was the best they could get. If we don't find common ground with everyone then where all going to be, well you know

 

[mjs]

NWA is not currently asking pilots for more concessions, just the other unions that have been dragging their feet and filing stupid lawsuits. The pilots agreed in their TA to go back to the table when all the other unions had taken cuts. Another smart move to make sure they are not the only ones taking pay cuts.

 

[JamesD]

You need to keep up on the latest news, it just came out today.

 

[CWASaab]

Maybe I am wrong, but I think the language in the contracts between NWA and XJ/9E prohibit either from operating anything BUT aircraft that are leased from NWA. This would include aircraft owned by either company.

I think you are correct, however things could be changing shortly with 9E as their Airlink Agreement will allow for them to fly for airlines other than NWA soon (if not already?).

NWA pilots were saying, "we will give you the additional flying BUT you cannot use OUR money that we are giving up in concessions to help finance the deal."

I think this is a reasonable thing to want, just look at Delta, and the animosity some of their mainliners feel towards the DCAs whose airplane payments Delta is covering, a huge debt no doubt (just look at general lee's posts here). I would sure hope that never happens between NW, XJ and 9E. Watch out, there I go again with the foolish optimism.

NWA MEC cannot change the terms of the agreement between NWA and XJ/9E. If those contracts were renegotiated, then an additional TA could be passed to allow XJ or 9E to do the flying. But at the time the pilots agreed to pay cuts, they had to have a guarantee the money would be used for its intended use, not to finance additional aircraft for other companies.

MS

While I can perhaps conceed that the NWA MEC is currently not in a position to force changes to the current Airlink Agreements (but only because they are unwilling to pay the costs), the language NWA pilots voted to accept does indeed sell out XJ and 9E, after years of brand scope cheerleading.

If the pilots of NWA really cared about brand scope and keeping the race-to-the-bottom types seperated from the red tail family, then all that was needed was language that prevents NWA from purchasing or leasing additional aircraft to be operated by a company other than NWA, and its pilots.

No changes to current agreements required. Obviously if NWA wanted more Airlink aircraft, then the agreements would need to be amended, which is not a big deal. I see no need to exclude XJ or 9E from potential growth, or open the door to a third Airlink to achieve the stated goal.

It sure seems to me that the NWA MEC gave in to management, at the expense of XJ and 9E pilots, because they were unwilling to spend negotiating capital to protect the Airlinks. From my perspective the NWA pilots got what they needed, by allowing management the chance to make their whipsaw against 9E and XJ more effective. In other words, XJ and 9E pilots were sold out.

I am not so arrogant as to think I have changed your mind, but neither is there much chance of you changing mine. I think we will probably have to agree to disagree.

 

[mjs]

You need to keep up on the latest news, it just came out today.

Read the news story....

Northwest Airlines to Seek Bigger Pay Cuts
Wednesday March 23, 4:33 pm ET
Northwest Airlines to Seek Bigger Pay, Benefit Cuts From Its Workers, CFO Suggests

MINNEAPOLIS (AP) -- Northwest Airlines will soon seek bigger pay and benefit cuts from its workers, the airline's chief financial officer suggested. Bernie Han, citing high fuel prices and a weak fare climate, said Northwest "will probably have a new target announced sometime in the upcoming weeks." The company wants to reach cost-cutting labor agreements with its unions by the end of the year, he said.

Han, speaking Tuesday at the Goldman Sachs Transportation Conference in New York, said there is a "greater urgency to get our labor cost savings in place." For the past two years, Northwest has said it wants to cut annual labor costs by $950 million. So far, the Eagan-based carrier has reduced its labor costs by $300 million a year by cutting the compensation of pilots and salaried workers.

It remains in mediated contract talks with the mechanics and ground workers unions. In early April, Northwest and the flight attendants union will meet for the first time with a mediator.

In addition to high fuel prices, Han said Northwest is being hurt by the fare restructuring launched by Delta Air Lines Inc. in January.

Northwest Airlines Corp. shares rose 26 cents, or 3.8 percent, to close at $7.09 in Wednesday trading on the Nasdaq Stock Market. The stock has traded in a 52-week range of $6.51 to $11.83.



No where does it state that pilots are being asked for more give-backs at this time. Why should NWA spend time on the pilots at this point? They already have an agreement that the pilots will come back to the table when all the other groups have new contracts in place. I don't think it was ever a question of whether there would be additional give-backs by the pilots. It is only a question of when.

This news release is tactical pr. It is directed entirely at PFAA and AMFA. Basically, if these two groups had come to the table months ago, ready to negotiate, then they would have a much better contract. But both groups have instead resorted to stall tactics. So now that mediators have been assigned to both groups to work on a contract and they will be asked for more in concessions. Just a repeat of the DALPA story.

 

[mjs]

It sure seems to me that the NWA MEC gave in to management, at the expense of XJ and 9E pilots, because they were unwilling to spend negotiating capital to protect the Airlinks. From my perspective the NWA pilots got what they needed, by allowing management the chance to make their whipsaw against 9E and XJ more effective. In other words, XJ and 9E pilots were sold out.
.

I do agree with you that the agreement is not beneficial to XJ and 9E pilots. But do you really expect them to spend their negotiating capital to protect the airlinks? What if they took additional pay cuts as a trade to protect the airlinks, then 9E, starts flying for other carriers, then 9E decides they do not want to fly for NWA any more? Or either of them filed chapt. 7? Or NWA terminates their contract with either one?

Ask the flight attendants about negotiating dues check off in a previous contract only to find out that they will now have to negotiate for it again b/c they switched unions.

I guess my point is, this business is really unstable. It would not be wise to spend negotiating capital on things that are out of their control.

MS