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Prater Must Resign!!

  • Thread starter Thread starter Flopgut
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Flopgut

Well-known member
Joined
May 16, 2005
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Can Captain Prater be an effective leader on future issues?

With clear instructions in three separate pollings on the retirement age issue, Captain Prater ignored results, influenced the Executive Board and unilaterally changed our union's direction.

Can we accept this form of leadership on something like Open Skies?

Should Captain Prater resign?
 
Hell yes!
 
open skies is unavoidable. ALPA should work with the government so we have a say in it.

is this our attitude now in the post age 65 world? let's just admit defeat on every problem and as AMR likes to say, "work together, win together".

as john stossel says, "Give me a break!"
 
Prater got what he wanted, age 60 changed, in order to ensure his own job. OK John, you screwed the majority, you divided the union more than anybody could, now go back to CAL and be a hero to all your 55+ buddies hire between 83-85. I am sure your "thank you package" will be waiting.

Prater is already the worst president ever at ALPA. In barely a year USAIR is jumping ship, the majority of the membership opposed any change to the 60 rule, and he totally disregarded our opinion, and what has he said/done about the open sky issue????

John should resign from ALPA immediately, go back to CAL, and enjoy the additional five years he worked so hard to get.
 
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Anybody yet pAssed a resolution at an LEC meeting? Or is this just more complaining on a web board?

Sheesh...you guys...always waiting for someone else to take up the banner for you
 
ALPA now needs to work with capa, teamsters and all other transportation unions to nullified the RLA and have every transportation union under the NLRA/NRLB as it should be. no more amendable contracts, when it's done, you can walk. Th RLA is unconstitutional a on a deregulated transportation industry and getting rid of it would do wonders ensuring proper contracts and protections to include foreign ownership and cabotage.

It won't even cross their minds .
 
What that arrogant self centered self serving idiot didn't think about, if the over 60 guys were only allowed to the right seat, Cabatage couldn't work in the states. No over 60 guy in the left seat. It'd mess them up maybe enough. But then again, Prater couldn't rape little boys like he's trying now.
 
from usapa site:

"The History of ALPA in Nine Paragraphs"

Well, another Labor Day is upon us and what is the current state of airline pilots in America? Yet another year has passed, and there are still no pensions, no nice paycheck increases, no schedules that even resemble what they were a mere dozen years ago (I guess so much for "Schedule with Safety" crap). In fact, if one cares to take an even closer look, one can discover that a NYC taxi cab driver can make more money today than a widebody airline Captain, which pretty much says it all. And all of this takes place while a new ALPA leader claims we are going to "take it back," whatever the true definition of "it" is.

I have been officially "retired" for over two years now, and can truthfully say I am happy to be there. This, after working many low-paying, long hour jobs to get my position with Eastern back in 1970, a lifetime ago. Back then, I really thought I had arrived. Instead of "arriving" today we all should ask ourselves, "Where did it go?" and more importantly, "How did it get away?" If one looks back on the sordid history of ALPA, it is pretty clear what happened, and the downhill slide began with JJ O'Donnell, a former Eastern pilot, at the ALPA helm. O'Donnell's first really big test as ALPA President came with the institution of airline deregulation that was first proposed by Gerald Ford, with the help of the esteemed Senator from Massachusetts Ted Kennedy and then-CAB Chairman Mr. Alfred Kahn, and instituted by the one-term loser, Jimmy Carter. Back then I was serving my first term as an elected MEC Rep from Eastern's NY base, under the expert tutelage of Skip Copeland. Skip and I spent many long hours going over and over where deregulation would ultimately wind up, and who would be the most impacted by it, finally coming to the conclusion that due to the internal ALPA structure all ALPA-represented airline pilots would eventually be negatively impacted, but not at the same time, for a number of reasons. But the real bugaboo was ALPA's structure, which meant that the pilots from different airlines would salivate over the demise of their "brothers," because their "brothers'" pain and suffering would mean many more promotions for the survivors--that is until it became "their turn in the barrel," so to speak. But ALPA did have a weapon that could have been branded, and all it would take was some true leadership and lots of communications. It didn't take any special genius to see who was targeted by the anti-labor airline deregulation, but the first needed step was to remove the blinders, cut the bull******************** and understand what the term "deregulation" really meant from a workers perspective. This meant that the vast majority of airline pilots had to first view themselves as--gasp-- workers. But, even though Copeland and I proposed a national Stoppage Of Service at the '78 ALPA BOD meeting, O'Donnell and vast majority of the BOD chose to ignore our call to arms through a SOS, and instead focus on "business as usual." Hell, the BOD even turned down our suggestions for a national pilot contract, which in Skip's uncanny words of wisdom would have "locked in pilot wages like a gallon of fuel," meaning everyone would be paid the same, so there could be no playing off one group against the other. Next, our proposal for a prospective national seniority list was also turned down, as was another proposed top echelon ALPA committee to look into the long term effects of deregulation on airline pilots. Great ALPA representation--no?

So, while deregulation quickly became the "law of the land" because of no ALPA opposition, not one person from ALPA ever even lifted a finger to truly enforce the flimsy requirement that those put out of work because of deregulation had to be the first hired at other carriers--just ask the Braniff guys about that. Next came the air traffic controllers strike, followed by Reagan's scabs and with it another blown chance for O'Donnell to take the side of labor. What happened this time? He again sold out to the Washington politicians, took to the airwaves and lied when told the American traveling public that the air traffic control system was "safe," in spite of the fact that he knew it wasn't. He knew because many of his own pilots were telling him it wasn't. I am proud to say that Council 51--Skip and my Council--was the only one in ALPA to publicly call on Reagan to rehire the controllers. Sure, there were problems with some individual controllers, but these paled in comparison to what Reagan's actions against them meant to every American worker, including airline pilots. But O'Donnell sat there with his thumb up his ass doing nothing, but no doubt praying every night there would be no midairs or other type of controller-induced calamity.

Then came the crew complement issue, when O'Donnell let the political hacks decide how many pilots we--those of us who did it every day--needed to safely fly the new generation of airlines coming off the assembly line. I clearly remember addressing the BOD from the podium and telling them if they agreed to this inane idea that we would soon be flying the 747 with 2 pilots, and I was practically heckled off the podium with cries of, "We will never fly the 747 with 2 pilots!" The rest is history.

When the ALPA BOD finally threw out O'Donnell, they put Hank Duffy in his place, yet another 3-piece empty foreign-made suit who thought that he and the ALPA pilots could fight the likes of Lorenzo with the capitalists tool, money, instead of every ALPA-represented pilot in America getting down and dirty and hitting the bricks over what Lorenzo did to the CAL pilots. Ah, but that brings us back once again to that dirty little ALPA internal structure that dictates when a "brother" is hurting, another "brother" benefits from his pain.

Babbitt then came next. Yes, the same Babbitt who compared ALPA National to a "mother ship" that had all these little boats in the form of the pilots from the various ALPA-represented airlines tethered to it. This Einstein went on to explain that when one of the little boats began to founder, it had to be cut off, so it wouldn't sink the "mother ship," and that was exactly what ALPA National did to the Eastern pilots--cut them off. Now that might sound innocent enough, but it's not when you think of it in terms of the human toll; the suicides, divorces, kids removed college, homes sold, lives destroyed by the anxiety and suffering. These are all of the items a true union is there to prevent, not enable, but then again, Mr. Babbitt now is out there peddling his services to the highest bidder, just like, oh well, you know.

Speaking of enabling, I could go on and on about the recent pension, pay and work rule giveaways that Babbitt's successor, Mr. Woerthless enabled, but there is no need to do that because their actions are painfully burned into our recent memories, and hopefully, Woerthless and his cronies will be held accountable in both a Court of Law and in the Court of public opinion.

You might wonder what is next on the anti-labor, anti-pilot agenda? Well, if you take a look in that Copeland-type of crystal ball, you can clearly see that having foreigners fly our domestic routes is bearing down on us at about Mach .84. Think of things like "Virgin America," etc. And what will ALPA do about this? I think we all know that answer, because reality dictates that with the same internal structure still in place and the sad, sad story of what the ALPA "leadership" has done to a once-proud profession, means it will be impossible to "Take it back." Instead, a better slogan might be, "More of the same to come."

All I ask is that you ponder the foregoing during this long Labor Day weekend when we celebrate the true labor leaders of yesteryear and not the phonies who have now taken their place on the dais. Also think of where the ALPA policy of always taking the perceived easy way out has gotten us. And, while you're at it, say a silent prayer for those who paid so dearly for this unwritten ALPA policy.

Fraternally,


 
Hate to say it and I might catch heat for this, but Prater is a by-product of the CAL scab era. I know he was a striker but....he just doesn't strike me as a leader who's interested in the rank and file. I think he's out for himself and his buddies. A potential for as much as $1,000,000 in extra earnings as a CAL 777 Capt. for himself and his buddies can be hard to overcome.
He took it back alright!!! Another win for the scabs that are left.
 
He can't leave until he gives in on scope. Delta will be the first to cave and give 100 seat aircraft to anyone except Comair. Skywest would be my guess since they would fly them for 50 seat rates.
 

from usapa site:


"The History of ALPA in Nine Paragraphs"


I think that the whole USAPA thing is misguided, but the author hit this one right out of the park. As long as all of the East vs. West, mainline vs. regional BS continues unabated there is zero chance that we'll be able to halt the decline, much less turn things around. Talk about increasing ALPA's participation in the political arena is putting the cart before the horse. Until the Association puts its house in order it will continue its descent into irrelevance.

I give Prater credit for recognizing the futility of squandering resources in opposition to age 65, but I'm not sure he's the sort of leader that we desperately need. Bill Cowher's available-let's ask him.
 
Can Captain Prater be an effective leader on future issues?

Depends... do you want him to come over and ask what you want for Xmas, or should he address the needs of 60,000 pilots in a global economy?

With clear instructions in three separate pollings on the retirement age issue, Captain Prater ignored results, influenced the Executive Board and unilaterally changed our union's direction.

Not really, but if you need to believe that... The Jews were bad too....

Can we accept this form of leadership on something like Open Skies?

It sepends on what the membership expectations are... I can assure you they are only thinking about their world and what is best for them the individual.

Should Captain Prater resign?

Should the membership particapte in self government of their careers?
 
Depends... do you want him to come over and ask what you want for Xmas, or should he address the needs of 60,000 pilots in a global economy?

Actually, he would make a good Santa!!

Not really, but if you need to believe that... The Jews were bad too....

Huh?

It sepends on what the membership expectations are... I can assure you they are only thinking about their world and what is best for them the individual.

Depends on how well the union manages these expectations.

Should the membership particapte in self government of their careers?

They did Rez!! This statement is correct:

"With clear instructions in three separate pollings on the retirement age issue, Captain Prater ignored results, influenced the Executive Board and unilaterally changed our union's direction."

You know, I think you've got some extra issues with the membership. When you served, you wanted to feel real special, didn't you? It really bothered you that when you put yourself out there your pilot group wasn't cheering your name. You need to get over it!! In it's purest form, this [union] work is really easy. You listen. That's all. So, they didn't adorn themselves with stickers and pins paying homage to you? Doesn't mean you ge to go off on some exaggerated, goofy direction.
 
Polls aren't allowed by the fascist mods on this board. They've deactivated them.

Your statements about Rez are incorrect, however. When he was a rep, he asked many times for guidance from the membership, and he received none. I had the same problem when I was a rep. He wasn't looking for this sort of "adulation" that you're talking about. I don't agree with Rez on this issue, but your attacks on him are unfounded.
 

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