Possible Violations @ CVG

[Amish RakeFight]

For the CVG ILS 18C adhere to the minimum altitudes on the step-downs. No question about it. Theoretically (regulatory), you shouldn't be intercepting the GS that far out.

Once beyond DULEY, you may descend down to 2400' and when the GS needle centers you're at the FAF. This will not necessarily take place at LOGOZ.

Like someone said, I thinks it's lazy pilot syndrome in the end.

 

[CA1900]

For clarification of my point, I should include that the FAF on the ILS is only the same as GS intercept when at the minimum altitude authorized for the approach.

That doesn't have any relevance to the Maltese cross on the approach plate. The cross is the non-precision final approach fix, and its only purpose on a precision approach is an altitude cross-check on your way down the glideslope. It's uncommon for the cross to be at the same point in space as the published GSIA.

The final approach segment on a precision approach begins at the interception of the glideslope at the published glideslope intercept altitude. If you need a reference, look at the FAA Instrument Flying Handbook:

Final approach fix (FAF): The fix from which the IFR final approach to an airport is executed, and which identifies the beginning of the fi nal approach segment. An FAF is designated on government charts by a Maltese cross symbol for nonprecision approaches, and a lightning bolt symbol for precision approaches.

 

[ultrarunner]

Originally Posted by ultrarunner
You're cleared to fly the published appr. Fly the step-downs and intercept the GS at the FAF. Simple as that.

What if the GS intercept at the FAF is below the final step down minimum requiring you to fly the GS down to that point?

Then ATC would have cleared you to that lower altitude, thus allowing you to intercept the GS.

 

[redrok]

LAX has the same "problem" and the same result (violations)

On the LAX ILS25L, guys were flyin the slope beyond the published intercept alt. and busting the HUNDA stepdown fix by 100'. Not much, however enough to have to make a call to SOCAL TRACON.

 

[The_Russian]

That doesn't have any relevance to the Maltese cross on the approach plate. The cross is the non-precision final approach fix, and its only purpose on a precision approach is an altitude cross-check on your way down the glideslope. It's uncommon for the cross to be at the same point in space as the published GSIA.

The final approach segment on a precision approach begins at the interception of the glideslope at the published glideslope intercept altitude. If you need a reference, look at the FAA Instrument Flying Handbook:

I agree. Maybe I wasn't as clear as I thought I was on my point. Sorry for that. My original response as to someone who said glideslope intercept is the FAF, which is not completely true.

From my experience, it is more common for the maltese cross to be in the same place as the GS intercept at the lowest authorized altitude. Like I said, it depends on the approach. Either way, if you intercept at a higher altitude than the minimum, that point (the minimum altitude pictured for the lowest GSI) will become the FAF whether or not the maltese cross is there.

 

[The_Russian]

Then ATC would have cleared you to that lower altitude, thus allowing you to intercept the GS.

Not always.

 

[Amish RakeFight]

Russian, admit it, you're back peddling over here. It seems you thought that the precision and non-precision FAF were at the same geographical location.

 

[The_Russian]

Russian, admit it, you're back peddling over here. It seems you thought that the precision and non-precision FAF were at the same geographical location.

Yeah, that was my bad.

My point still stands. GS intercept is not always the FAF on a precision approach.

 

[obadie]

Yeah, that was my bad.

My point still stands. GS intercept is not always the FAF on a precision approach.

FAF is the lowest published ALT that intercepts the GS. Unless ATC gives you a lower ALT to intercept that then turns into FAF. On an ILS.

 

[The_Russian]

FAF is the lowest published ALT that intercepts the GS. Unless ATC gives you a lower ALT to intercept that then turns into FAF. On an ILS.

Thats what I said. Except that ATC cannot assign you an altitude lower than authorized for the IAP.

Am I not a good poster or something? It seems no one reads nor understands what I am saying in any thread, ever.