Possible SWA T.A. pay numbers... Embrace the suck.

[Ty Webb]

Yep. Pretty simple. Don't trade what we have for this p.o.s. and a few extra bucks that will likely be absorbed by concessions and weak language.

 

[Flopgut]

not necessarily routing against you all, but... Back in the day Pan Am was ur equal opposite (international v domestic. I.e. They did all their own international flying) US politicians and other countries'airlines teamed up to change that. It would be quite incongruent to see a US airline like SWA be able to do all their own international flying in today's age. Youre short on compliance and enormously limited in a single airplane type, And Pan Am's advantage was traded away as much by US politicians as it was US legacy contracts. So why should it be made easy for you now? You're expensive, your cabin service is even more stale than UAL (which is pathetic) and frankly, you're just not that special. Do whatever you're going to do, but do NOT ask US politicians to make it easier for SWA in exchange for allowing the ME3 to do what they want to do.

 

[Lear70]

not necessarily routing against you all, but... Back in the day Pan Am was ur equal opposite (international v domestic. I.e. They did all their own international flying) US politicians and other countries'airlines teamed up to change that. It would be quite incongruent to see a US airline like SWA be able to do all their own international flying in today's age. Youre short on compliance and enormously limited in a single airplane type, And Pan Am's advantage was traded away as much by US politicians as it was US legacy contracts. So why should it be made easy for you now? You're expensive, your cabin service is even more stale than UAL (which is pathetic) and frankly, you're just not that special. Do whatever you're going to do, but do NOT ask US politicians to make it easier for SWA in exchange for allowing the ME3 to do what they want to do.

This isn't a political debate... wrong thread. This is about the T.A. and negotiating with the company. It has nothing to do with legislation or anything else.

No one said we wanted to fly all over the world in a 737, but we certainly can cover N America, Mexico, the Caribbean, and most of S America with the 700's and 800's, and the rest of S America and Hawaii with the Max.

The POINT is that we don't want to give that flying away. There's no reason we need codeshare for those. We're growing into it NOW, more destinations every quarter.

Would we consider SOME code-share? I think a good portion of the pilot group MIGHT give up some FAR international with drop-dead dates and cease-and-desist language, rather than some kind of ridiculous "circuit breaker" language that is almost impossible to digest. First rule of contract language - if it's hard for YOU to read and digest it, it'll be hard for the arbitrator, which makes enforcement extremely hard.

As for the rest of your post, I really don't see much of a comparison between us and Pan-Am. Different era, different product. I personally preferred the cabin experience at AirTran with assigned seating and Business Class, but whenever people find out I work at Southwest, 9 times out of 10 the response is "I love them! You guys are so fun to fly on!" You have to remember, the average person may fly once or twice a year. For them, it's not stale.

Good luck,,,

 

[Just thinking]

And to think the SME's read over this language and decided to send it on the the pilot group. The level of incompetence is staggering from the BOD to the NC and to the NOC. Dewey, Cheatem and Howe"....... From our own representatives. You have to wonder what they are getting from the company for throwing their own pilot group under the train. Take the quote from our president in March boliviating on about RRC and section 1 is sacred blah blah blah. Now he quickly shovels this load of dung at the pilot group. Phuking worthless. He does not even have the courage to send out anything to the pilots he is screwing over.
The pilot group has quickly poked holes in a multitude of sections with piss poor language and concessionary give backs for nothing. They did not even have the courage to forward it the the pilot group with a NO vote recommendation.

 

[Flopgut]

This isn't a political debate... wrong thread. This is about the T.A. and negotiating with the company. It has nothing to do with legislation or anything else,

SWA can't do what it wants to do without some change or without help. Period. Other countries will not surrender it to you like was once done with PanAm. My advice: try and keep your code share to one airline, or maybe two. Pick one with young FAs, the right airplanes, and one that can help the SWA geniuses demystify the intricacies of etops.

 

[Lear70]

SWA can't do what it wants to do without some change or without help. Period. Other countries will not surrender it to you like was once done with PanAm. My advice: try and keep your code share to one airline, or maybe two. Pick one with young FAs, the right airplanes, and one that can help the SWA geniuses demystify the intricacies of etops.

Thanks for the advice, but no, thanks.

We're expanding just fine as it is. We don't need to service every city in the Americas, just the good ones and we're making headway just fine.

Maybe, when the music stops and they eventually need something, and can explain why, not obfuscate the issue with overly-difficult and non-industry-standard language with proper ways to stop it if they abuse it? Maybe.

But not this way, and not now. We have a half decade or more of expansion to do on our own without needing code share of this aggressive a nature.

 

[slaquer5]

SWA can't do what it wants to do without some change or without help. Period. Other countries will not surrender it to you like was once done with PanAm. My advice: try and keep your code share to one airline, or maybe two. Pick one with young FAs, the right airplanes, and one that can help the SWA geniuses demystify the intricacies of etops.

just think , you proclaim to NOT HATE. SWA . what would your babel be if you did have anger towards SWA.

 

[Flopgut]

just think , you proclaim to NOT HATE. SWA . what would your babel be if you did have anger towards SWA.

I don't know... What would yours be if you didn't LUV your employer so much? Honestly I don't know if I completely understand what you're saying... I'm in the middle of the road. This [FI] is like talking sports. And in this case it's almost like talking football with Pats fans, except the Pats are a much better airline than SWA is a football team.

If the plan is to flourish in South America, like the ME3 think they'll continue to do so throughout the world, then expect some opposition.

 

[Flopgut]

Thanks for the advice, but no, thanks.

We're expanding just fine as it is. We don't need to service every city in the Americas, just the good ones and we're making headway just fine

But not this way, and not now. We have a half decade or more of expansion to do on our own without needing code share of this aggressive a nature.

When I started flying to Liberia Costa Rica the terminal had no walls. Just a roof. They built an enormous, beautiful terminal with plenty of gate space. SWA maybe goes there someday and wants gate space. Absent a code share you can't predict what other airlines will want to reciprocate with. But we know it can't be much because SWA didn't allow for it [airport/gate space]. This is where it gets murky. You don't have the same 5 years another airline might, you didn't build the space.

 

[PCL_128]

Who cares? This is about their TA.

 

[Flopgut]

Who cares? This is about their TA.

When the thread was Delta's TA, there were sure a lot of SWA posters with plenty of interest.

I'm interested in SWA TA section 1. Depending on how it ends up, SWA mgt is going to have to leverage every other airlines' hard work and equity to some extent. I don't want to see the SWA agreement undermine the rest of us.

 

[shootr]

When I started flying to Liberia Costa Rica the terminal had no walls. Just a roof. They built an enormous, beautiful terminal with plenty of gate space. SWA maybe goes there someday and wants gate space. Absent a code share you can't predict what other airlines will want to reciprocate with. But we know it can't be much because SWA didn't allow for it [airport/gate space]. This is where it gets murky. You don't have the same 5 years another airline might, you didn't build the space.

We're already there (in our metal). Service start Nov 1.

 

[Flopgut]

We're already there (in our metal). Service start Nov 1.

That's cool! Great place. Compare terminal space there with what SWA is building at Hobby and you'll start to see my point. They don't mind you coming to the party, but what are you bringing? Evidently not airport space. So is it code share?

 

[slaquer5]

I don't know... What would yours be if you didn't LUV your employer so much? Honestly I don't know if I completely understand what you're saying... I'm in the middle of the road. This [FI] is like talking sports. And in this case it's almost like talking football with Pats fans, except the Pats are a much better airline than SWA is a football team.

If the plan is to flourish in South America, like the ME3 think they'll continue to do so throughout the world, then expect some opposition.

That was a pretty witty reply

 

[Lear70]

That's cool! Great place. Compare terminal space there with what SWA is building at Hobby and you'll start to see my point. They don't mind you coming to the party, but what are you bringing? Evidently not airport space. So is it code share?

Doesn't matter what we're bringing, it's already approved and it's already happening. That's the point.

We don't need Scope relief to go to these places. We're already doing it.

If, in the future, we hit a wall and need the scope relief, they can come to us with a solid plan like I mentioned before, including hard cease and desist if they stray outside the plain English intent and limitations. Until then,,, it's not worth the risk with the language that's in Section 1.