Possible Litigation on PSA property for Left Seats.

[LowlyPropCapt]

PSA signed J4J. Sounds like sour grapes to me. I wonder how many of those that are gripping were even employed when all of this J4J stuff went down?

Even if it was 50... A small price to pay for a long term career at mainline.

 

[paddlehigh]

Who cares if everyone keeps flying around for 600 miles at 18,000 feet at 340 knots houck will have nothing more to micro manage in the future anyways, what a joke of a company. And scheduling is worried about a 50 cent crew meal instead of 2000 pounds of fuel, go figure. Pissing match to the bottom

 

[LearLove]

why not likely? you sued to get a mainline number so why can't we?

when did we sue for a mainline number?? did I miss something??

 

[LearLove]

5 more in JAN class, with 38-40 more on the list waiting to come as the J4J's leave!

I don't think so. There are about 6 CEL guys at PSA as capts. The 5 that I know were all hired in 1999 at ALG - thats senior to any FO on the PSA properity - so what are they bitchin about?

Second the next 2 or 3 bids at Republic for j4j capt slots will finish up the APL list. Thus because there are positions at republic for j4j capts I don't think anyone else will bid PSA.

 

[trainer8]

why not likely? you sued to get a mainline number so why can't we?

Not so, 328. There was never a suit to get a mainline number. Whatever or whoever is feeding you info, or if you came up with this on your own, it is faulty information.

T8

 

[skydork]

Even if it was 50... A small price to pay for a long term career at mainline.

We don't have a flow, how are we to get a long term career at mainline? The s#$t sandwich would go down a little easier if we at PSA had a mainline number as well but we don't and it doesn't look like we are ever going to.

 

[Gofish]

Discouraging this is.

 

[BenderGonzales]

Skydork said, "how are we to get a long term career at mainline?"

Well heck, i've been furloughed since 02. If you figure out the answer to that question, let me know.

You guys should have told them heck-no to J4J. (sarcasm) Then you could've just gone to MYR and faded away with the Dorniers.

Leave the CEL guys alone. They took a gamble and, as a result, were "rewarded" with USAir seniority numbers. They are USAir pilots (furloughees) with all of the rights, privileges, and KY Jelly that goes along with that position.

 

[d328pilot]

When we signed the J4J deal, the understanding was that a CEL pilot that goes to MDA and is furloughed, goes back to their previous carrier. That what it specifically says in the LOA and what was discussed prior to ratification. This is not the agreement that was ratified here..its an adulterated POS that the mainline MEC has decided to change on their own.

Haber himself told me that he represented the CEL guy in a DFR lawsuit. I was told by an AAA MEC member that the threat of lawsuit was one of the reasons the CEL guys were given seniority numbers. To show that they actually cared....

A long term career at mainline??? Now they say we dont have a flowthrough and we are not even special enough to speak to the Mainline MEC. There are very few here that want to work at mainline. Most want to get as far away as possible.

I dont care what their DOH at PDT or ALG was. The CEL guys that are here are pieces of sh*t.

 

[ponder]

That cracked me up, Bender.

 

[Weasil]

PSA signed J4J. Sounds like sour grapes to me. I wonder how many of those that are gripping were even employed when all of this J4J stuff went down?

Even if it was 50... A small price to pay for a long term career at mainline.

What you are failing to understand is that the current "slotted seniority" agreement was never agreed to by the PSA pilots, the vote was against it but the MEC ratified the agreement anyway!! They said they had their reasons but whether they did or not the PSA pilots did not agree to this current deal. Also as a previous poster stated, there was never supposed to be jobs at PSA for guys coming from the other regional carriers, only furloughed mainline pilots. (Yes I know the midatlantic pilots like to call themselves furloughed mainline pilots, but that wasn't part of the original deal no matter how you look at it).

Also, currently there is no flowthrough agreement, that part of the original deal is not being honored either. PSA is a ********************hole of place to work as it is, without all this other stuff going on. I'm so glad I'm not there anymore!

 

[LowlyPropCapt]

Also, currently there is no flowthrough agreement, that part of the original deal is not being honored either. PSA is a ********************hole of place to work as it is, without all this other stuff going on. I'm so glad I'm not there anymore!

The PSA pilots don't have a flowthrough stated as a condition of thier acceptance of the J4J proticol? Piedmont does. I have been told by the PDT reps that one of the sticking points in the flow negotiations is PSA's treatment of the former-CEL-now-APL pilots. An above poster had it right. They took the risk, and are now reaping the rewards. Had you (that is a collective "you", not you personally) been given the opportunity (or chosen too if you have the required seniority) you would have probably made the same move.

We are talking such small numbers here. These guys aren't doing anything to you personally at PSA, just taking advantage of the contract language negotiated for them. Yeah, it is a sh*t sandwich, but then again so much of this job is exactly that. I just think it is rediculous and short sighted to get bent out of shape over such small numbers of captain seats.

 

[ex j-41]

I just think it is rediculous and short sighted to get bent out of shape over such small numbers of captain seats.

Small numbers?

Difference to some F/O's is $36k a year vs capt pay at $60. I take $24k loss personally.
It could also mean the difference between Reserve and holding a line. I also take that very personally.

These guys aren't doing anything to you personally at PSA, just taking advantage of the contract language negotiated for them. Yeah, it is a sh*t sandwich, but then again so much of this job is exactly that.

You just said it yourself....Taking Advantage.

 

[BeCareful!]

We don't have a flow, how are we to get a long term career at mainline? The s#$t sandwich would go down a little easier if we at PSA had a mainline number as well but we don't and it doesn't look like we are ever going to.

Wern't pilots at PSA offered MDA positions just like everyone else? That's how you were supposed to get your number, Jack! I mean, Dork...

Here's your sign.....

 

[EDUC8-or]

I have been told by the PDT reps that one of the sticking points in the flow negotiations is PSA's treatment of the former-CEL-now-APL pilots.

Bunch of candy azzes. They held lines right out of class, went from the right seat of the Dash to the right seat of the 170 to the left seat of the CRJ. I really feel for them. Let them sit reserve for years like the J4J's in CLT who ACTUALLY WORKED AT MAINLINE and deal with our lovely skrew sked department on a daily basis, maybe they'll go whine to the mainline MEC about that as well.

 

[ponder]

Are one of you guys the Phantom Shi$$er?

 

[Gofish]

Hey guys...everone is treated poorly at PSA and it isn't CEL/PSA/APL specific.

 

[LowlyPropCapt]

Small numbers?

Difference to some F/O's is $36k a year vs capt pay at $60. I take $24k loss personally.
It could also mean the difference between Reserve and holding a line. I also take that very personally.




You just said it yourself....Taking Advantage.

I know the feeling, believe me.

Took it in the shorts seniority-wise in the post 9/11 downsizing. BK related pay concessions. More expensive benefits. I used to be a line holding captain in the base of my choice, now I am barely squeeking in to hold the seat in the most junior (and crappy) case in the system. In fact, my seniority growth has actually been negetive until very recently.

I just can't fault people for taking advantage of opportunities that are offered by the contracts we work under. If I were to feel bad about that, I would go sit in the right seat and let someone more junior to me have that seat. Maybe that would be more fair? That just isn't how things work. You are asking for a level of fairness that simply doesn't exist.

 

[ex j-41]

You are asking for a level of fairness that simply doesn't exist.

We all got into this industry knowing about the seniority system. Start on the bottom and work your way up.
Everything gets better the higher you go.

We need to stop this "ME" attitude and start thinking about "US".
This selfish thinking doesn't do any of us any good.

Fair is playing by the rulebook. No reading between the lines. Our LOA doesn't say anything about CEL pilots. So why are they here?

 

[Gofish]

Ehhhhh Nevermind...nothing to see here move along.