Possible effect of Northwest bankrupty on Mesaba or Pinnacle??

[sweptback]

The weird thing is that I heard we're baseing 4 airplanes out of DTW. I would think we'll be going to SLC, CVG, and ATL.; maybe even MCO and LGA.

Four airplanes makes a base at CHQ? What does that work out to be, about 20 lines?

 

[BlackPilot628]

Four airplanes makes a base at CHQ? What does that work out to be, about 20 lines?

It is only Temporary Base. The bid says, "Pilots awarded these vacancies will be temporarily based in DTW from approximately September 4 to October 15." I'm not really sure why they're doing this; as stated above I think it because of an agreement with Delta's Schedule during that time period.
We don't bid lines, we use the Pref Bidding system. (PBS) I'm not sure what the pairings will look like, but it shall be interesting.

 

[surplus1]

Someone would actually "bid" for a new base with a month and a half duration?

You all have must have a very different understanding of what a "base" is than I do.

Are you all going to commute to this new "base"? Where will you live while you're there and who will pay for it? You?

 

[Napoleon TNT]

This was once the motto for a few PNCL pilots...

I dont care about all the negative stuff, it happens at every airline. Im just excited to fly a jet in DTOWN

...now I guess it is the new CHQ banner.

HA!

 

[c-wood75]

Are you all going to commute to this new "base"? Where will you live while you're there and who will pay for it? You?

No. company is paying for hotel and 24 hour full per diem while in DTW. every commuter ive talked to is bidding to get this assingment. If I was a commuter i would be all over this one.

 

[Monster Buck]

Instead declaring what will happen to XJ and 9E, why not ask the Air Wisconsin and Indepedence Air pilots what happends to vendors when the primary declares....

Nothing will happen to Mesaba or Pinnacle, except that they will be used a a whipsaw against NWA pilots if there is a bankruptcy. Air Wis. and FLYI are apples and oranges to the way of things with the Red Tails. All red tails ARE COMPLETLEY CONTROLLED by NWA. We will do Exactly as NWA wants. There will be no breaking away or having NWA use someone else that they do not have complete control over.

It seems everyone likes to say "someone is coming to take your flying" anytime there is any stir up. Contracts are due every day all around this country. Like I have said before, that constant threat in itself between pilots helps to shape the downward spiral attitude that kills our unity to stand up for more. Back door threats, wether they are to spur conversation or bickering are detremental to every pilots carrer. If you keep saying that the sky is going to fall long enough, people will start to believe it, and act. They will not act as a unified group that fights for the better, they will tuck tail and run into a poor pay scale to keep the ENEMY from taking THEIR flying because they feel that is their only option.

 

[PCL_128]

Someone would actually "bid" for a new base with a month and a half duration?

You all have must have a very different understanding of what a "base" is than I do.

Are you all going to commute to this new "base"? Where will you live while you're there and who will pay for it? You?

TDYs (Temporary Duty) are not all that unusual. Pinnacle used them several times this past year. It's a great deal for commuters. I don't know the particulars of the CHQ contract, but a typical TDY section would require a positive space deadhead to the new domicile, 24/7 per diem, and a hotel room.

 

[Carl_Spackler]

The fact that you would even cite that as a reason is very troubling in my opinion of 9E pilots

The fact that you would base your opinion of 9E pilots from a few posts on a message board is troubling.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Nothing will happen to Mesaba or Pinnacle, except that they will be used a a whipsaw against NWA pilots if there is a bankruptcy. Air Wis. and FLYI are apples and oranges to the way of things with the Red Tails. All red tails ARE COMPLETLEY CONTROLLED by NWA. We will do Exactly as NWA wants. There will be no breaking away or having NWA use someone else that they do not have complete control over.

It seems everyone likes to say "someone is coming to take your flying" anytime there is any stir up. Contracts are due every day all around this country. Like I have said before, that constant threat in itself between pilots helps to shape the downward spiral attitude that kills our unity to stand up for more. Back door threats, wether they are to spur conversation or bickering are detremental to every pilots carrer. If you keep saying that the sky is going to fall long enough, people will start to believe it, and act. They will not act as a unified group that fights for the better, they will tuck tail and run into a poor pay scale to keep the ENEMY from taking THEIR flying because they feel that is their only option.

Rhetoric... Your mantra evades the question and assumes you know what I am talking about.

When UAL declared they forced the ALPA groups of the vendors into concessionary contracts. NWA doesn't care who's name is comes before dba.

 

[surplus1]

No. company is paying for hotel and 24 hour full per diem while in DTW. every commuter ive talked to is bidding to get this assingment. If I was a commuter i would be all over this one.

Thanks. Now it makes sense. It's not a base, just TDY (temporary duty). Nice gig, except for it being DTW.

 

[Monster Buck]

Rhetoric... Your mantra evades the question and assumes you know what I am talking about.

When UAL declared they forced the ALPA groups of the vendors into concessionary contracts. NWA doesn't care who's name is comes before dba.

I do know what you're talking about. I'll digress. You have no idea about MSA and 9E workings and of our agreements, if you did you wouldn't have said that. BTW your right JA, I DO. They are not the same as Air W. and FLYI, you imply the same results will be seen or likely. The threat(bankruptcy) may be the same but the receivers are very different. So I guess thats the part you don't understand. I didn't evade, you idiot. I pointed out, that just because the threat is the same doesn't mean that we will see the same result. Remember I said apples and oranges. You seem to be very full of yourself, with your signiture about Flying the Line I and II, you must know how it works everwhere else. Your idea that one action always produces the same results is ignorance in itself.
Rule as I see fit type of guy??? Let me guess, you're from Cambridge.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

I do know what you're talking about. I'll digress. You have no idea about MSA and 9E workings and of our agreements, if you did you wouldn't have said that. BTW your right JA, I DO. They are not the same as Air W. and FLYI, you imply the same results will be seen or likely. The threat(bankruptcy) may be the same but the receivers are very different. So I guess thats the part you don't understand. I didn't evade, you idiot. I pointed out, that just because the threat is the same doesn't mean that we will see the same result. Remember I said apples and oranges. You seem to be very full of yourself, with your signiture about Flying the Line I and II, you must know how it works everwhere else. Your idea that one action always produces the same results is ignorance in itself.
Rule as I see fit type of guy??? Let me guess, you're from Cambridge.

MB,

Your repsonse requires more explanation. I have offered the Bain Consulting scenario... which is reduce your rates, fixed cost plus or we'll find XJ/9E replacements.

why do you think this is not applicable to XJ and 9E? Why the personal attacks?

 

[saabtrash]

Quote:

Since we are no longer "wholely owned" they won't have to force us into bankruptcy with them, and yet we're a great tool for the emergence of a stronger, profitable NWA.


Couldn't have said it better myself! You guys really are a bunch of "great tools!"

 

[Monster Buck]

MB,



why do you think this is not applicable to XJ and 9E? Why the personal attacks?

Sorry about the personal attacks. I get a little edgy these days with the constant barrage of threats with the likes of Freedom and GJs types. Not that you are one, just the idea becomes a little salty. I'll try to realign a little here.
With XJ, NWA controls everything we do, they have their hands on both sides of our balance sheet. This along with control of our board, controlling stock and groupies they placed at the head of our co. and parent co. We do not have anything even remotely close to our own identity. That being said, our agreement, as you probably know, is a fee for service type. Set fees for each departure, for each type of a/c. While it is true they could come back to the co. and ask for this to change, by our structure that involves unions and long drawn out fights like our contract we ended last year. With them playing both sides, admendments to the agreement can be much easilier made by introducing new cost to be covered by Mesaba that would not involve the unions. For example, have fees attatched to some or all the fuel, glycol, gates, baggage service, ticketing, advertising cost... Almost anything they do would only be a shuffle of the sheet. For the most part, they are both our costs and our income. Increasing one and decreasing the other has little effect on the volumn of the entire pot. Our rates are on a slim margin with most everyone else. Our pilots know this and would use that fact to fight to the death in the face of any pay cuts. NWA knows this and can acheive thier goals with alot less bloodshed. Replacing XJ is similiar to saying I replace myself. Although even that happens, it is very unlikely.

Sorry about the tone from the last, frustration seems to set in earlier and earlier these days. Peace.

 

[crashpad]

Mesaba pilots will make out like bandits. I'm thinking they can even do some arm twisting on NW to get a flowthrough.

 

[SRMairlines]

NWA owns 15% of PNCL stock and 25% of MAIR stock. I believe the majority of the voting rights of both companies are owned by NWA too. Doug Steenland owns a good share of MAIR stock himself. He maybe selling the NWA stock, but not MAIR. Richard Andersen, former CEO of NWA and many Senior VP's at NWA also still own a very large share of PNCL's common stock.

What I am getting at is that MAIR and PNCL stock will be used as collateral in future loans, and quite possibly exit financing in a CH 11 filing. If NWA wants their contracts renegotiated they can do that at any time without putting them up for bid. It is in the A.S.A. Replacement flying for the PNCL and MAIR is very unlikely because PNCL and MAIR do not bid for the flying at NWA like other cairriers do. NWA management wants MAIR and PNCL to continue to grow and will make every effort in that direction. It makes them rich and they have very deep pockets. I think it is very possible that 9E and XJ may benefit from a NWA CH. 11., but anything is possible in B.P. Everything depends on the judge.

 

[jackbo]

i feel bad for the nwa boys. they are going to have to choose between their pension or their scope but they won't keep both.

 

[Monster Buck]

NWA pilots have given and given. I hope a filing doesn't occur. I would like nothing more than to see NWA pilots keep everything they now have without even being asked to give more than they already have. At worst I think that some 50 seat scope may be lost but I don't see them giving up 70's. I hope that will go the the NWA pilots and buck the trend. This point to point will increase more over the next ten or so years until a new mix of hub and spoke/point to point is found.

 

[Monster Buck]

Mesaba pilots will make out like bandits. I'm thinking they can even do some arm twisting on NW to get a flowthrough.

I don't think we will see a flow through at Mesaba. We turned one down five years ago, primarily due to the fact that the best offer was at a rate 1/4 the rate they were hiring our pilots without a flow. It wasn't going to be an add to the rate of hiring but as an absolute. With four times as many guys and gals going without it, why ruin a good thing. It would have only helped the very senior pilots who didn'g get in without the flow. I'll bet that we see flows become a thing of the past, especially with the gains to management from whipsaws.

 

[SRMairlines]

The NWA MEC has mentioned a flow-thru in past meetings with 9E and XJ both included to prevent separation in the Union. XJ and 9E will be both included if there ever is a flow-thru LOA to hit the table. There has also been some talk to include Champion Air since a big share of NWA's charter flying was handed to them. None of this is in written form yet and may take awhile if it even goes further.

Current Pension situation. If the Pension legislation bill goes forward and passes before next April, no Airlines would be able to shed their plans under Ch. 11 anymore. They would have 14 years to pay the balance after the freeze and it would become a secure debt. If it doesn't pass... Scope vs. Retirement... Compensation vs. Retirement... Very messy scenario at NWA. I would expect NWA to end up similar to United except keep a frozen pension due to the new law.