Possible DL hiring in 2014?

[Explosive]

Furlough and Furlough Bypass are different are they not? No one is on furlough that has not been offered recall. All are on furlough bypass.

Ref PWA 21 C.7
A pilot who has bypassed recall will be subject to the following:
a. he will be ineligible to receive furlough pay,
b. he may only return to duty:
1) in conjunction with a subsequent recall or new hire class, and
2) if he has notified the Company in writing of his desire to accept recall at least 30
days in advance of the class date on which he wishes to return.
Note one: The Company is not required to recall pilots in numbers greater than it deems necessary in a new-hire or recall class.
Note two: If there are more pilots who have bypassed recall that seek to return to duty than the Company has determined is required, such pilots will be returned to duty, in seniority order and prior to any new hire, in conjunction with Company scheduled new hire or recall classes,
and
c. his employment will be terminated if he does not return to duty within ten years from his date of furlough.

We have not pilots on furlough so we will not have "recall" classes, only new hire classes.

There were recall classes in 2010 that preceded new hire classes. Recalls have a different training footprint if I'm not mistaken, so it would be in the company's best interest not to mix them. For example, if 50 of the 203 furloughed pilots indicate they wish to return, they would be put into one or more recall classes, and would precede new hire classes, like in 2010.

As far as I'm aware, there is no such thing as a "furlough bypass pilot". We have 203 pilots on furlough who have chosen to bypass all of their recall opportunities to date.

The ALPA board has a good thread on this. It sounds like we may have recall classes in late 2013, and new hire classes in early 2014. Of course, a furloughed pilot could return in 2014 in conjunction with new hire classes too.

The late summer AE-surplus bid might have more vacancies than pilots to fill them, it might make sense to offer recall to fill the void ahead of the new hire classes next year.

 

[Monster Buck]

We had furlough returns in my new hire class, the only difference i noticed is that they showed up two days later than new hires in the two week class and they didn't go to the new hire dinner.

 

[Flybywire44]

From the Council 1 meeting this month:

"Hiring: We anticipate a nominal amount of hiring in 2014; currently estimating 60 per month January-June, then 20 per month."



So, if the above is true (?), there would be 360 newhires from Jan-Jun, and then 120 from JUL-DEC, for a possible total of 480 in 2014. Some may ask why not start sooner? I think the training dept will be slammed with outgoing DC9 pilots transitioning to other planes, initial 717 crews will be trained, and many people in between are moving from plane to plane. So, IMO, the sims will be full this year. Throw in a possible used widebodies coming (rumor) which will cause more internal training, and things will be busy for awhile. Then throw in tons of retirements over the next 3-5 years.



Bye Bye---General Lee

I heard no hiring at DAL until Fall of 2014.

 

[lakemead1]

I heard no hiring at DAL until Fall of 2014.

Heard from who?

 

[i fly boxes]

Heard from who?

Its because they have to hire all 2300 pinnacle pilots between now and the end of 2014

 

[Flyer1015]

Its because they have to hire all 2300 pinnacle pilots between now and the end of 2014

They'll say whatever it takes to keep Pinnacle pilots from bailing left n right like they are so far.

 

[jynxyjericho]

Its because they have to hire all 2300 pinnacle pilots between now and the end of 2014

I think we are below 2300 bud

 

[BILL LUMBERG]

Its because they have to hire all 2300 pinnacle pilots between now and the end of 2014

Well quit yer bittchin and get an app into Pinnacle then.....


......thought so!

 

[nwaf16dude]

Its because they have to hire all 2300 pinnacle pilots between now and the end of 2014

We don't have any requirement to hire pinnacle pilots. They have only been promised interviews, not jobs.

 

[jynxyjericho]

We don't have any requirement to hire pinnacle pilots. They have only been promised interviews, not jobs.

... Yikes. You haven't read the thing yourself obviously, have you. You would be correct if you said we are not all being promised jobs, but we are promised interviews and a number of Pinnacle pilots have to be in each class.

Look I'm not saying that a lawyer couldn't find a way out of the SSP (or whatever the hell we are calling it) but you're either silly or ignorant to the agreement if you believe the quoted txt.

 

[Waylon]

RA didn't invest in PCL because he felt sorry for us. In my opinion he has decided the CRJ 900 is the regional plane he wants, and he now likes our cheap contract. In one year PCL with have a flow again with Delta. My reasoning, a flow costs him nothing, parking CRJ 900's because of no pilots costs him lot's of money.

 

[nwaf16dude]

... Yikes. You haven't read the thing yourself obviously, have you. You would be correct if you said we are not all being promised jobs, but we are promised interviews and a number of Pinnacle pilots have to be in each class.

Look I'm not saying that a lawyer couldn't find a way out of the SSP (or whatever the hell we are calling it) but you're either silly or ignorant to the agreement if you believe the quoted txt.

You know what? You're right and I was wrong. I did not read it. I heard with my own ears from the Delta Crew Resources guy who said they were only guaranteed interviews. I should have learned my lesson on listening to management types a long time ago. I'll be glad to see a bunch of new hires, no matter the source.

 

[SIG600]

RA didn't invest in PCL because he felt sorry for us. In my opinion he has decided the CRJ 900 is the regional plane he wants, and he now likes our cheap contract. In one year PCL with have a flow again with Delta. My reasoning, a flow costs him nothing, parking CRJ 900's because of no pilots costs him lot's of money.

Where do you think they'll find cheap ATP qualified labor to replace those flows? Without that, there will be no flow ups if RA wants to keep those planes flying.

 

[Waylon]

Here is how it could work. A pilot gets hired at Pinnacle with constant movement an upgrade comes within 2-3 years. They are seat locked for 24 months and then off to Delta. A regional contract with low wages can work as long as there is movement. In the grand scheme of things a couple of years of low wages as an FO with a flow is worth more than a couple of extra bucks at the beginning of your career. That will be the only way PCL will be able to staff this airline.

 

[wms]

Pncl will be gone after the 2015 dci rate reset.

 

[Flyer1015]

Ask Eagle how a flow worked out.

Why didn't Delta give Comair a flow? Those CRJ900s went around didn't they?

 

[SIG600]

Here is how it could work. A pilot gets hired at Pinnacle with constant movement an upgrade comes within 2-3 years. They are seat locked for 24 months and then off to Delta. A regional contract with low wages can work as long as there is movement. In the grand scheme of things a couple of years of low wages as an FO with a flow is worth more than a couple of extra bucks at the beginning of your career. That will be the only way PCL will be able to staff this airline.

That promise has been sold over and over again. Only now they need ATP holders to believe it, not a naive kid with a brand new commercial ticket.

 

[Flyer1015]

Exactly. And AMR would have needed two training cycles. One for the Eagle flow to AA and another for his replacement at Eagle. Far cheaper to hire outsiders and thats what they did. If Delta continues owning 9E, the same thing becomes a problem.

 

[jynxyjericho]

Ask Eagle how a flow worked out.

Why didn't Delta give Comair a flow? Those CRJ900s went around didn't they?

Jesus. The flows were a NWA thing, not a Delta thing. That's why Comair didn't get one. The Compass one was an agreement between the union and the airline because the E-jets were outside the NWA scope. They all had to flow up, but Compass was the furlough protection (partial) in case NWA furloughed as a result of the 175's. At Compass up to 80 or 90% could be pushed out to accommodate the NWA guys. Mesaba's was completely different in organization and allowed them to flowback only after one of ours flowed up 1:1. We got less seats in class but our whole SLI couldn't be dumped overnight when NWA chose to furlough. None of that happened obviously.

Ask how the Compass flow went Flyer, everyone on property the day of sale flows to Delta. Plus the guys who have flown for Mesaba and will continue to. Flows aren't perfect and maybe they'll never come back but let's at least try to keep to facts here.

Also, if you're going to make crap up, do a better job.

 

[jynxyjericho]

You know what? You're right and I was wrong. I did not read it. I heard with my own ears from the Delta Crew Resources guy who said they were only guaranteed interviews. I should have learned my lesson on listening to management types a long time ago. I'll be glad to see a bunch of new hires, no matter the source.

It's no problem. With flyer making things up as he goes I was trying to keep some of this grounded in reality. Didn't mean to pick on you or anything.

New hires are nice right? Means everyone is moving on up!

 

[WMUSIGPI]

Jesus. The flows were a NWA thing, not a Delta thing. That's why Comair didn't get one. The Compass one was an agreement between the union and the airline because the E-jets were outside the NWA scope. They all had to flow up, but Compass was the furlough protection (partial) in case NWA furloughed as a result of the 175's. At Compass up to 80 or 90% could be pushed out to accommodate the NWA guys. Mesaba's was completely different in organization and allowed them to flowback only after one of ours flowed up 1:1. We got less seats in class but our whole SLI couldn't be dumped overnight when NWA chose to furlough. None of that happened obviously.

Ask how the Compass flow went Flyer, everyone on property the day of sale flows to Delta. Plus the guys who have flown for Mesaba and will continue to. Flows aren't perfect and maybe they'll never come back but let's at least try to keep to facts here.

Also, if you're going to make crap up, do a better job.

Only a few were "grandfathered" into the flow. The rest of us got the finger (well several at once and no lube to be exact)

 

[jynxyjericho]

Only a few were "grandfathered" into the flow. The rest of us got the finger (well several at once and no lube to be exact)

As I said previously, flows aren't perfect. A 100 (80 said yes?) were grandfathered, a dozen already flowed.

I lost my flow too brotha'. Pinnacle SAVED us!

 

[Flyer1015]

Jesus. The flows were a NWA thing, not a Delta thing. That's why Comair didn't get one. The Compass one was an agreement between the union and the airline because the E-jets were outside the NWA scope. They all had to flow up, but Compass was the furlough protection (partial) in case NWA furloughed as a result of the 175's. At Compass up to 80 or 90% could be pushed out to accommodate the NWA guys. Mesaba's was completely different in organization and allowed them to flowback only after one of ours flowed up 1:1. We got less seats in class but our whole SLI couldn't be dumped overnight when NWA chose to furlough. None of that happened obviously.

Ask how the Compass flow went Flyer, everyone on property the day of sale flows to Delta. Plus the guys who have flown for Mesaba and will continue to. Flows aren't perfect and maybe they'll never come back but let's at least try to keep to facts here.

Also, if you're going to make crap up, do a better job.

That was my point. Delta doesn't want flows. It was a NWA thing. As for Compass, lets wait to see until the rest actually flow up to Delta in 2014 and 15. But don't forget the gift that keeps on giving: even after the last Compass flow leaves for Delta, Delta furloughs can still go to Compass and knock nearly all them out (except 10-20% or something). Historically flows have a way of not working as advertised. Something always happens or comes up, in this case, the NWA/Delta merger.

 

[General Lee]

That was my point. Delta doesn't want flows. It was a NWA thing. As for Compass, lets wait to see until the rest actually flow up to Delta in 2014 and 15. But don't forget the gift that keeps on giving: even after the last Compass flow leaves for Delta, Delta furloughs can still go to Compass and knock nearly all them out (except 10-20% or something). Historically flows have a way of not working as advertised. Something always happens or comes up, in this case, the NWA/Delta merger.

I have no doubt the Compass guys will flow up, and they are only limited to the yearly max allowed. When things start moving, they will be in a great position prior to the huge hiring years later this decade. 4000 scheduled age 65 retirements occur between 2020 and 2024. I assume many PNCL pilots will flow up also via their one day interview etc....


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[jynxyjericho]

I assume many PNCL pilots will flow up also via their one day interview etc....

That's not a flow.

 

[General Lee]

That's not a flow.

I mean preferential interviewing that hopefully leads to hiring.


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[jynxyjericho]

I mean preferential interviewing that hopefully leads to hiring.


Bye Bye---General Lee

Wouldn't hurt my feelings if that was the case, however, the reality will be quite different I'm sure.

 

[Waylon]

Will this small AE include new hires? The reason I think it may is this. Last time Delta hired they(Delta) did not like how 9E and CPZ flows could get held back 3 months after the flows were assigned class dates. So by creating this AE in June award probably out late June that would give Delta the 180 day window it would like. New hires in class in Jan 2014 and all flows show up to their assigned class ready to hit the line Spring 2014. Maybe it's just wishful thinking, of possible hiring.

 

[SLUF4]

Will this small AE include new hires? The reason I think it may is this. Last time Delta hired they(Delta) did not like how 9E and CPZ flows could get held back 3 months after the flows were assigned class dates. So by creating this AE in June award probably out late June that would give Delta the 180 day window it would like. New hires in class in Jan 2014 and all flows show up to their assigned class ready to hit the line Spring 2014. Maybe it's just wishful thinking, of possible hiring.

I hope you're right. I was hoping it was to adjust staffing for an impending aircraft order, but that seems unlikely also. If true, I guess we would see an announcement tomorrow of some kind.

 

[sniper]

With so many retirements and MD90s and 717s you don't need a flow through here

80 per month by the end of the year for the next 10 years I was told.

Keep your licenses clean and couple LORs
And you will be in the office

That's what I see here