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Position and Hold Clearence's Not Auihorized come September

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Lrjtcaptain

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 28, 2002
Posts
927
Just heard from my manager come september that "Position and Hold" clearences are no longer autorized unless the facitilty can justify its use and saftey. Apperently too many controllers are forgetting about people in position and landing planes over the top I.E. SJC has had numerous incidents as had LAX not including the crash many many years ago.
However airports that can justify its use can apperently get a waiver to use the clearence. Larger facilties like Atlanta and San Fran that utitilze certain ruways for departures only should not be affected however, I could see LAX, DEN, and ORD getting hurt here because they are using same runways for departures and arrivals. Although it may make the system a tad bit safer, its just gonna slow down an out of control system already.
 
Wouldn't it make more sense to remove the authorization from only the airport's who habitually get in trouble using it?

I agree, the system is broken and slowed down enough as it is!
 
Just go to the European clearance:

LINE UP AND WAIT! :D
 
User997 said:
Wouldn't it make more sense to remove the authorization from only the airport's who habitually get in trouble using it?

I agree, the system is broken and slowed down enough as it is!

Or remove it only when there are planes assigned to land on that runway. For example, usually only 747s NEED to land on 24L at LAX, so unless there is one on the approach somewhere, allow the position and hold.
 
User997 said:
Wouldn't it make more sense to remove the authorization from only the airport's who habitually get in trouble using it?

I agree, the system is broken and slowed down enough as it is!

The only answer for the runway problem is more concrete. Lots more. Wouldn't it be great to taxi AROUND a runway?

BTW, Lrjtcapt, did you see a copy of the FAA letter to the guy in N90? Not good.
 
That would shut down LGW. They plan to land an airplane over the top of you and you better be spooled and ready to go as soon as the airplane landing clears the runway. I think Europe has a better ATC system anyway.
 
They should just observe the experts the honey bees. All bees inbound land upside down on top, and all bees outbound takeoff on the bottom.
 
All bees inbound land upside down on top

That's one way to avoid that pesky reverse sensing on the back course...

Personally, I'm all ears and eyes when cleared into position to hold. All lights on, and I'm ready to taxi clear. If other aircraft is working that runway or a parallel, my ears are perked up and I'm not hesitant to refuse if I think there's any issue. I try to sit on the very end of the runway, not down it, such that landing aircraft are more likely to go over me than on me while I sit. I pre-spool, and I treat being on the runway like holding a weapon with the safety off, or sitting in line with a loaded firearm.

I'm not opposed to stopping position and hold clearances. I think it's a positive step toward reducing ground incursion incidents.
 
The silly thing about this memo going around, (if it's not short-circuited along the way), is the facilities having lots of problems and traffic will probably be allowed to continue using the procedure, and those with less traffic and squeaky-clean error rates will stop. That's the way the FAA works in their little Never-Never Land. They won't stop the procedure at places like EWR because COA's delays would skyrocket, and somebody would be calling in some serious Congressional IOUs shortly.
 
Perhaps I am wrong, but is there really a safety issue by holding an airplane in position at the approach end of a runway on a clear day? Even if it is forgotten about, the pilot of the landing aircraft would have to be blind not to see it there unless its a very small airplane. I know that position and hold is already restricted from being used from intersections at night, but if they are going to restrict it further they should restrict it completely during night hours and in IFR conditions. Doing away with it completely at most airports just seems a bit overboard.
 

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