PNCL: Class personified!! wow., just wow

[Flyer1015]

Flyer,

I am too tired to look up the details, but I remember lots of ASA's at Mesaba that "locked up" our flying for a long time. I have only been here 6 years, so they certainly weren't "locked up". Granted, some were from pre-bankruptcy, but if Delta wants to dump flying, I am pretty sure they will find a way to do it. Was ASA's (the airline) flying "locked up" when they got the ratio for the 900's that were coming our way? I honestly don't know, but I assume they were otherwise they would have just been cut. Contracts are great, but we all know how well management sticks to contracts. If anyone has details on past XJ ASA's, I would be happy to here about them. Avros and Saabs, and maybe even the 200's we were suppose to get but only got 2, got "locked up" for a looooong time just before bankruptcy, I remeber that.

Look up your early-out clause for Saabs in your ASA, and you'll see why Delta is parking all Saabs this year and latest by next year. The early-out is in there. Pinnacle has no published 'early out' for any of its RJ flying in the ASA.

 

[WMUSIGPI]

Well you could start with the 10 year Avro agreement that was tossed out (along with all 35 planes) a couple months after being signed back in 2005. The CRJ200's was supposed to be 20 new airframes with a guarantee that the next 15 options would go to Mesaba also (the "big announcement" from spring 2005). In reality it ended up being 2 airframes with 1 being almost immediatly given to Compass to start up thier operations, though after the shamruptcy it was eventually returned to Mesaba. And now we all remember the constant garbage spewed during said shamruptcy about "our core 49 Saab fleet" that clearly isn't the case.

 

[bri5150]

Any chance this is just coincidence the day after the list is suppose to come out?

http://www.syracuse.com/news/index.ssf/2011/05/may_21_2011_end_of_the_world_judgment_day.html

 

[xjhawk]

Flyer-I actually sensed some good will in the last post about DOH-I can understand your beef about the fences, those Colgan pilots are already getting better pay and work rules-why gift wrap huge seniority gains for them as well. But your argument about how the future of Pinnacle airlines leaves a little to be desired. Someone on here pointed out the promises given to mesaba in rock solid ASA's- that turned out to be lies. Thanks Delta. They can do that to anyone. And as for being the in a great place-I do not think Pinnacle was as high as ASA or Skywest. They have real lock solid flying from Delta (dont they own the gates in Salt Lake and have as part of the ASA deal most the flying out of ATL?) But if you think 9E's crj200's are untouchable-I hope you are right.I would think in todays economy an airline with a lot of 900's or 175/190's is best suited for the future.

Glad we can agree on DOH though

 

[bri5150]

Flyer-I actually sensed some good will in the last post about DOH-I can understand your beef about the fences, those Colgan pilots are already getting better pay and work rules-why gift wrap huge seniority gains for them as well. But your argument about how the future of Pinnacle airlines leaves a little to be desired. Someone on here pointed out the promises given to mesaba in rock solid ASA's- that turned out to be lies. Thanks Delta. They can do that to anyone. And as for being the in a great place-I do not think Pinnacle was as high as ASA or Skywest. They have real lock solid flying from Delta (dont they own the gates in Salt Lake and have as part of the ASA deal most the flying out of ATL?) But if you think 9E's crj200's are untouchable-I hope you are right.I would think in todays economy an airline with a lot of 900's or 175/190's is best suited for the future.

Glad we can agree on DOH though

Come on...bring it in...group hug time...

 

[Flyer1015]

Well, I guess we can all agree on some things. There's always bound to be some common ground, after are, we are airline pilots with certain personalities (type A?). It's just a matter of days, and Bloch will release his award/decision.

Interestingly, I googled Richard Bloch to see what his previous record is like. Apparently, the NFL Player Union fired Bloch as their arbitrator after he made a decision that wasn't in favor of the NFL Player, something about his huge $ contract. It's interesting reading on arbitrator cases.

 

[SEVEN]

Well, I guess we can all agree on some things. There's always bound to be some common ground, after are, we are airline pilots with certain personalities (type A?). It's just a matter of days, and Bloch will release his award/decision.

Interestingly, I googled Richard Bloch to see what his previous record is like. Apparently, the NFL Player Union fired Bloch as their arbitrator after he made a decision that wasn't in favor of the NFL Player, something about his huge $ contract. It's interesting reading on arbitrator cases.

Getting nervous yet?

 

[Flyer1015]

Getting nervous yet?

No, but I do want to see the award.

 

[Flyer1015]

Fifty-Seater Issue Still Looms Large For U.S. Regionals


http://www.aviationweek.com/aw/gene...er Issue Still Looms Large For U.S. Regionals

May 16, 2011


By Andrew Compart

It is no secret that 50-seat regional jets have been falling out of favor as higher fuel costs make them uneconomical on a growing number of routes, which is why many U.S. regional carriers have been trying to shift their fleets to larger aircraft. But a closer look at some numbers shows why regional airlines remain vulnerable on their 50-seat fleets, especially if fuel costs continue to rise.

For all of their size-shifting efforts, 50-seaters still accounted for about half the U.S. regional airline fleet as of last July, according to Regional Airline Association statistics (RAA).
A significant percentage are used on routes of 600 mi. or more, an Aviation Week analysis shows. That matters because of the economics—Delta Air Lines already has pulled back its usage of 50-seaters to routes under 750 mi. and has talked about pulling them back to routes under 600 mi. That means those longer routes would be the most vulnerable if other major carriers follow Delta’s lead.

Delta still has about 60 routes of 600 mi. or longer, all of which are operated by Pinnacle Airlines, according to Aviation Week’s analysis.
The moments of truth will come with the expiration of the contracts a regional carrier has for flying the aircraft for a major airline partner (or sooner, if the major airline finds a way out of the contract). Over the rest of this decade that will happen for more than 70% of the 50-seater fleet. If the aircraft are not coming off lease, the regional carriers will have to find contract terms the major carriers are willing to accept or find another use for them.

Pinnacle, however, talks about these contract expirations as an “opportunity,” because its fleet also includes larger and more cost-efficient Bombardier CRJ900 regional jets and Bombardier Q400 turboprops. “Some of these [50-seater] contracts will be renewed or offered to other regional airlines and some will be replaced with larger regional jets,” Pinnacle explains, while noting that its first mass expiration of contracts will not occur until 2017. “We intend to actively compete to obtain profitable regional jet and Q400 flying during this period of transition within the industry, and we believe our history of strong operating performance with a competitive cost structure will position us to succeed.”

 

[bri5150]

Fifty-Seater Issue Still Looms Large For U.S. Regionals


http://www.aviationweek.com/aw/gene...er Issue Still Looms Large For U.S. Regionals

May 16, 2011


By Andrew Compart

It is no secret that 50-seat regional jets have been falling out of favor as higher fuel costs make them uneconomical on a growing number of routes, which is why many U.S. regional carriers have been trying to shift their fleets to larger aircraft. But a closer look at some numbers shows why regional airlines remain vulnerable on their 50-seat fleets, especially if fuel costs continue to rise.

For all of their size-shifting efforts, 50-seaters still accounted for about half the U.S. regional airline fleet as of last July, according to Regional Airline Association statistics (RAA).
A significant percentage are used on routes of 600 mi. or more, an Aviation Week analysis shows. That matters because of the economics—Delta Air Lines already has pulled back its usage of 50-seaters to routes under 750 mi. and has talked about pulling them back to routes under 600 mi. That means those longer routes would be the most vulnerable if other major carriers follow Delta’s lead.

Delta still has about 60 routes of 600 mi. or longer, all of which are operated by Pinnacle Airlines, according to Aviation Week’s analysis.
The moments of truth will come with the expiration of the contracts a regional carrier has for flying the aircraft for a major airline partner (or sooner, if the major airline finds a way out of the contract). Over the rest of this decade that will happen for more than 70% of the 50-seater fleet. If the aircraft are not coming off lease, the regional carriers will have to find contract terms the major carriers are willing to accept or find another use for them.

Pinnacle, however, talks about these contract expirations as an “opportunity,” because its fleet also includes larger and more cost-efficient Bombardier CRJ900 regional jets and Bombardier Q400 turboprops. “Some of these [50-seater] contracts will be renewed or offered to other regional airlines and some will be replaced with larger regional jets,” Pinnacle explains, while noting that its first mass expiration of contracts will not occur until 2017. “We intend to actively compete to obtain profitable regional jet and Q400 flying during this period of transition within the industry, and we believe our history of strong operating performance with a competitive cost structure will position us to succeed.”

/group hug over

Huh? Losing aircraft is an "opportunity"? Sounds like typical management spin to me. How will they be replaced with larger regional jets if scope is maxed out? Okay, first mass EXPIRATION of contracts in 2017. What about mass RENEGOTIATING of contracts? There really isn't much in this article other than management trying to polish a turd. If you assume the cuts will be even among all the regional carriers, Delta wants us down from approx. 150 200's to approx 50? At no time has Mesaba had 100 aircraft in danger at the same time. That is a HUGE cut.