Please help a fellow union brother not SCAB.

[Diesel]

I'd picket with you if I was in the area. Wish you all best of luck.

Thanks we need all the support we can get.

 

[realityman]

I disagree. The company has to negotiate with us, and the clock is running out for them.

This is where your inexperience with unions and how negotiations work really shows.

In a nutshell, you are wrong on this. Your continual reliance on this same belief over and over and over in spite of being told otherwise by people who do have the experience is either willful ignorance on your part or you're just an optimist to a fault.

They do not HAVE to negotiate with us. Look up "surface bargaining". Then look at the history of our management's "negotiations" with our own F/A's as well as our own group and maybe it'll become more clear for you.

They will only negotiate with us seriously when they have INCENTIVE to do so. And no, a negotiating committee sitting across the table with scowls on their faces, arms crossed, demands made, spittal flying, and "vigorously negotiating" as you keep suggesting, is not the incentive that will get anything done. Try asking any of the airline folks here who have been through this just how well "vigorously negotiating" (by the way, would you mind explaining to me exactly what that means to you and how our negotiators should carry that out? I honestly am not sure what that is.) without leverage from the membership works.

Do you WANT to strike? If not, there are ways to get what we want without striking, but it would require the participation of almost everyone. Agree or disagree, a HUGE turnout at the pickets is great leverage. Do the social media tweets your union asks you to. Fly the FAR's, CBA, AFM, FOM, AOM and other controlling documents to the letter. Trust me, following ALL the regs and policies exactly as you're supposed to does not work in the company's favor, and is perfectly legal. If everyone would do this, and I do mean EVERYONE, we would not need a strike AND this would be done quickly.

Instead what we actually get is a bunch of people pontificating about what is "right" and "wrong" in negotiations, how they'll only do things they agree with, or how they think simply paying dues will get it done, or how they "wish" it would go, or it really comes down to the negotiating committee, or how scabs help keep the company afloat during a strike (are you sh****ng me with that one?!). All very intellectual and philosophical. And all guaranteed to drag negotiations out for a very long time, and even work against a positive outcome for the union.

Stop over thinking it. Collectively we aren't the MENSA society. It's a union. If we are to be a SUCCESSFUL union then we need (figurative) baseball bats, not philosophy major textbooks. If you are ever brought in for discipline, do you want a union steward who acts buddy-buddy with the company and who wants meaningful dialogue to reach an amicable conclusion where you get your "fair" comeuppance, or do you want a pit bull with you who has only ONE goal in mind: to keep you out of the frying pan entirely and who will tell the company to go f*** themselves in no uncertain terms if necessary, and who will use every means at his disposal to protect you, even if it means things aren't "amicable" or "reasonable" between the union and company? How do you want your dues used? Why should it be any other way in negotiations?

 

[ghostrider64]

What you say has a lot of merit. I mainly wish unions could operate without intimidation of some of its members.

We could if you and your ilk would get in line immediately when the call to so is made, however your "procrastination/get er done" attitude delays the process for years. YOU are the reason this process will be PROLONGED. Not intimidation, just a simple fact that you don't seem to comprehend.

 

[Sky Captain]

What you say is reasonable. I just wish unions could do their thing without intimidating those members who disagree sometimes with the leadership.

I wish COMPANIES would do the same. Intimidations from management over maintenance issues, fatigue policy, etc. Now we hear FlexJet has FIRED 2 pilots for just try to organize a democratic vote by the pilots to see IF they want to join the a Teamsters or not. What is more intimidating than that?

 

[Flopgut]

I wish COMPANIES would do the same. Intimidations from management over maintenance issues, fatigue policy, etc. Now we hear FlexJet has FIRED 2 pilots for just try to organize a democratic vote by the pilots to see IF they want to join the a Teamsters or not. What is more intimidating than that?

This^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

G4dude: when the Union frustrates you, keep this in mind

 

[Crobar]

Great on you guys for trying to convert G4wanttobedude. I tried over and over to make my older brother understand Unions are for the working man... but he was enlisted in air force for 26 years made it up to E8 and he refuses to see that Unions are here to protect the worker. He blocks out everything.. all he sees is managements side.

Maybe he will understand when he scabs and is treated like trash, spit on for the rest of his life. I wish everyone knew who all the scabs were.. that needs to be known. I flew with a scab a few times.. without knowing he was an Eastern scab.. and IOE instructor.. what a POS.

 

[Flycatcher99]

On an completely unrelated-to-Netjets topic, I suspect that I'm not the only member of this board who finds it wildly hilarious that the irony of your comment about "decid[ing] that you'd rather quit" is somehow lost on you, PCL.

Another "mission accomplished"? :blush:

Bubba

I'll second this post.

 

[SharkRider]

We used to have a couple of scabs on our seniority list, one of which went to NJA just in time to get furloughed

 

[ghostrider64]

We used to have a couple of scabs on our seniority list, one of which went to NJA just in time to get furloughed

Sadly our union doesn't have a voice at the interview/hiring table.

 

[G4dude]

Sadly our union doesn't have a voice at the interview/hiring table.

God forbid. What a joke, having a union, which invested NOTHING in the company, having input regarding who gets hired.

 

[G4dude]

This^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

G4dude: when the Union frustrates you, keep this in mind

I believe companies should fire anyone they want to, especially those who try to organize union representation. Our jobs don't belong to us. We are paid if we provide a valued service to the employer. If I owned a company, I would fire organizers immediately. Union types are generally lazy, negative, and less productive. With some exceptions, of course.

 

[Flopgut]

I believe companies should fire anyone they want to, especially those who try to organize union representation. Our jobs don't belong to us. We are paid if we provide a valued service to the employer. If I owned a company, I would fire organizers immediately. Union types are generally lazy, negative, and less productive. With some exceptions, of course.

Well, you've got a perfect example right there at Netjets of where that attitude will land you. Those Gulfstreams were a runaway shop and the union eventually won. Damn well bet the union did own those jobs! Mgt and Gulfstream had it proven to them in a court. What you're saying is basucally illegal, but certainly proves you're an a$$hole.

 

[G4dude]

Well, you've got a perfect example right there at Netjets of where that attitude will land you. Those Gulfstreams were a runaway shop and the union eventually won. Damn well bet the union did own those jobs! Mgt and Gulfstream had it proven to them in a court. What you're saying is basucally illegal, but certainly proves you're an a$$hole.

I am saying it shouldn't be illegal. If I take the risk and do the grinding work of starting a company, I should have the right to hire and fire who I wish. And the union won by coercing Santulli into giving up. No democratic process there. A union vote at NJI would have lost 85/15 percent, in my opinion.

 

[PCL_128]

I own a company, and I certainly don't believe that I should have the right to crush a union drive. I can imagine nothing more un-American.

 

[G4dude]

I own a company, and I certainly don't believe that I should have the right to crush a union drive. I can imagine nothing more un-American.

I respect your opinion. I just don't agree. I would never advocate thuggish behavior in stopping a unionizing effort, but I would want to fire the employees involved, and wish them well in their future employment. Another way to state this general philosophy: I would HATE it if NJA fired me, but I believe they should have the unfettered right to do so, for any reason.

 

[Flopgut]

I am saying it shouldn't be illegal. If I take the risk and do the grinding work of starting a company, I should have the right to hire and fire who I wish. And the union won by coercing Santulli into giving up. No democratic process there. A union vote at NJI would have lost 85/15 percent, in my opinion.

The Declaration of Independece reads "We the people", not We the huge faceless corporations... You are not only at the wrong company, you're in the wrong Country. You are free to leave BOTH!! Or, you're also welcome to toe the line pal!!!

 

[PCL_128]

I would never advocate thuggish behavior in stopping a unionizing effort, but I would want to fire the employees involved

These two statements are mutually exclusive. Firing someone for trying to unionize is thuggish behavior.

 

[outerlimits]

I respect your opinion. I just don't agree. I would never advocate thuggish behavior in stopping a unionizing effort, but I would want to fire the employees involved, and wish them well in their future employment. Another way to state this general philosophy: I would HATE it if NJA fired me, but I believe they should have the unfettered right to do so, for any reason.

So it's ok if they make you fly a broken Aircraft or bust mins.

I Do not think you believe what you are saying .

 

[Diesel]

Awe G4 is back. We missed you. Hope you will make it to Omaha. Thanks for standing strong and having your fellow union brothers and sisters backs.

 

[G4dude]

So it's ok if they make you fly a broken Aircraft or bust mins.

I Do not think you believe what you are saying .

Nope, both are wrong. What company is doing that, pray tell?

 

[G4dude]

Awe G4 is back. We missed you. Hope you will make it to Omaha. Thanks for standing strong and having your fellow union brothers and sisters backs.

Thanks. I pay dues and think the union does a pretty good job, against all my lifelong opinions against unions.

 

[G4dude]

The Declaration of Independece reads "We the people", not We the huge faceless corporations... You are not only at the wrong company, you're in the wrong Country. You are free to leave BOTH!! Or, you're also welcome to toe the line pal!!!

I know you are just angry, but I should leave the US because I don't believe in unions?

 

[get2flyin]

So it's ok if they make you fly a broken Aircraft or bust mins.

I Do not think you believe what you are saying .

You beat me to it.

 

[G4dude]

You beat me to it.

What company makes pilots do those things? Call the FAA if that happens.

 

[get2flyin]

What company makes pilots do those things? Call the FAA if that happens.

What's worse, the company that forces a pilot to break FARs or the one that rewards pilots that do it without being asked? Regardless of WX or MX, the pilot that gets to the destination without incident must be the best pilot the company has, right?

 

[Diesel]

Thanks. I pay dues and think the union does a pretty good job, against all my lifelong opinions against unions.

Then why don't you start doing your part and join the fight instead of sitting on the fence and threatening to scab if you don't agree with the union.

Let's go we have a long fight ahead of us.

 

[CA1900]

If I owned a company, I would fire organizers immediately. Union types are generally lazy, negative, and less productive.

You should go ahead and find a non-union employer immediately, then.

 

[Herkdrv]

These two statements are mutually exclusive. Firing someone for trying to unionize is thuggish behavior.

Thought you finally quit? Why do you even care?

 

[Diesel]

You should go ahead and find a non-union employer immediately, then.

He got all flustered and left fi for a couple of weeks. Nobody would listen to his ideal but he is still preaching it on the road to anyone that will listen.

You know the type.

He won't fly the contract and he won't support our union unless it suits him then he's been harmed and expects representation. He will scream from the highest rooftop about how he has been wronged and pays good money for representation but couldn't care less when it happened to the other guy but is now up in arms when it's happened to him.

He will cross. Just look at his disdain for union employees. He hates them unless it suits him.

 

[PCL_128]

Thought you finally quit? Why do you even care?

Why do you care why I care?