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Pinnacle's latest safety idea..

redflyer65

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The company is pushing hard to have all pilots fly both models (per a TA). Is that safety or savings?

A jump from the -200 to the -700 maybe. From the -200 to the -900 is not that great of an idea in my opinion...

What a great time for the company to propose such an idea. Great job.
 

PeanuckleCRJ

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Safety isn't an issue. I go between the 757 and 767.... that's a bit more of a difference with a 150,000 pound weight difference, different handing characteristics and a very different sight picture. The differences between the 200 and 900 are minimal...


The issue is that they are trying to cheapen the operation and con the pilots out of more money by only paying 200 rates except when they fly the 900. That's what I would be pissed about. It requires less reserves in the system and cuts pay back to the 200 rates for all the ATL based rsvs except when they get a 900 flight.


I believe some FUPM bracelets should be in order for the 9e guys!
 

WMUSIGPI

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Safety isn't an issue. I go between the 757 and 767.... that's a bit more of a difference with a 150,000 pound weight difference, different handing characteristics and a very different sight picture. The differences between the 200 and 900 are minimal...


The issue is that they are trying to cheapen the operation and con the pilots out of more money by only paying 200 rates except when they fly the 900. That's what I would be pissed about. It requires less reserves in the system and cuts pay back to the 200 rates for all the ATL based rsvs except when they get a 900 flight.


I believe some FUPM bracelets should be in order for the 9e guys!


Bingo! Just ask the PSA guys what they think. For that matter just ask ANY group with a blended FO payscale what they think. I'll start as a witness to the blended FO.... IT'S B.S. DON'T EVER LET IT IN THE DOOR!
 

redflyer65

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I think the issues comes in if you are to fly the -200 for 11 months then are given a -900 turn, or

Fly the -900 for 12 months then your thrown into a -200 sim for a jeopardy PNCL checkride without a warm up.

You guys alright with that as well?

I don't think a constant back and forth would be a major issue, but they want carte blanche to do whatever they need.
 

CoATP

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Safety isn't an issue. I go between the 757 and 767


Just curious does one approach nose up and one nose down. If you use landing technique in one does it crashthe other? Do you have a 500 hr FO that you have to manage? Are you one?
 

PA31Driver

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Just curious does one approach nose up and one nose down. If you use landing technique in one does it crashthe other? Do you have a 500 hr FO that you have to manage? Are you one?

Haha awesome! :laugh:
 

redflyer65

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Easy guys, Peanuckle is an OK dude but CoATP understands where I'm headed.

At Delta, if your on 767 lines - doesn't pretty much stay that way?

The -900 is unbelievably longer than the -200 and has slats where the -200 doesn't. How would this work out at 200 and 1/2? Not sure I'd really want my family to find out. Maybe that's just me....
 

CFI2766

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The company is pushing hard to have all pilots fly both models (per a TA). Is that safety or savings?

A jump from the -200 to the -700 maybe. From the -200 to the -900 is not that great of an idea in my opinion...

What a great time for the company to propose such an idea. Great job.


I think that SKYW already does this.

I think that this will be an issue for all the regionals when the next round of contract talks come around.

If the company wants this, I'd suggest that we take it: as long as ALL rates are bumped up to the 900 rate.
 

redflyer65

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That would be a great idea if you could get it, but is it still the safest thing to do?

Especially after the Colgan crash. Really?
 

PeanuckleCRJ

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Yes, they land very different with distinctly different sight pictures and techniques. If you try to land the 767 like you land the 757 you will at the least end up with some logbook writeups. Also, if you haul back on the stick on takeoff on the 767 like you do on the 75, you'll drag the tail.

I get one leg in the 767 about every 2-3 months. It's becoming even more few and far between, unfortunately. I don't consider swtching back and forth that hard- they are the same airplane above 10,000 feet for the most part. Just have to remember which one you are flying before you takeoff and before you land.

As far as 500 hr FOs, I was always very comfortable with myself as an instructor- in fact they were fairly easy to manage because you knew you had to watch them and were typically eager to learn. There were certain exceptions and definitely certain captains I wouldn't have wanted combined with them with my family in the back.



With Pinnacle's training program (lack thereof) and their neverending run to save pennies, I'd be fighting this tooth and nail like they are. If people are going to be dual qual'd, pay everyone 900 rates all the time. I'm paid 767 rates however much or little I actually fly the fatty.
 

PeanuckleCRJ

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That would be a great idea if you could get it, but is it still the safest thing to do?

Especially after the Colgan crash. Really?


Exactly... you'd think that PT and CS would be tip-toeing around trying to make a good impression on the media, and then they go and pull crap like this. Un-freaking-believable.
 

Volasl

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PSA does it everyday. When i was there i flew the 200 all the time. When i flew the 700 it was always down to mins with a stiff crosswind at night. Its not a perfect situation but the FAA says its safe right?
 

brokeflyer

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u guys needs to step up and make safety your number one goal before more people get killed.
 

DoinTime

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Yes, they land very different with distinctly different sight pictures and techniques. If you try to land the 767 like you land the 757 you will at the least end up with some logbook writeups.

If you land the -900 like the -200 you won't have to deal with a log book write up because the aircraft will be flaming wreckage and your passengers will be hauled off in body bags.

I'm not saying that it can't be done but this is Pinnacle we are talking about here. We don't have the pilot group or corporate culture to do this safely. What's the corporate motto again? Never compromise $avings?
 

filejw

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The actual flying of the a/c should not be a problem, we used to fly the DC 9 -10 thru -50 with out a problem. You should be able to handle the a/c if you have any skill level at all. However how are the FMC's set up, close to same ? This would be an issue to be looked into..
 

IBNAV8R

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DON'T DO IT!!! In my opinion, it's NOT safe. 700/900 OK. Add -200, no way. You can get away with it in good conditions but they land quite differently - enough to bite you (and the other 52 people on board) when conditions go south. We've had at least one -200 overrun where the crew who had been flying the -700 expected different braking performance after a long float (also common in the -200 if you're not used to it). Company was mum, of course, but word got out.
 

paddlehigh

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I do it at PSA all the time. Its totally safe if you know how to fly planes to begin with.
 

flyboyike

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