Pinnacle vs. Mesaba

[JMO]

It's when your shirt gets tucked into your underwear...

Nice

break break

Thanks PCL_128, it's all clearer now!

 

[CFIfornow]

In order for 60 to flow up NWA would have to hire 600 in 2008. That is doubtful with the proposed fleet cutbacks. Another thing that has yet to be fleshed out with the flow rules is if someone who bypassses flow up still occupies a flow up position. This was the way it was at eagle I believe. You might get 60 vacancies to flow up at XJ but if the top 60 do not take them nobody goes up.

DT, where you get this info? I have heard the 10% rumor as well, but I have been told by one of our union guys that this is not the way it is going to work. We haven't seen the final details yet, and there is still a chance that it won't happen.

 

[SplitBar]

The flow-up limits are 3 per month from Jan-Aug and 9 per month starting in Sept 08. It has nothing to do with a percentage of new hires. If there are 6 new hires starting in January 2008, 3 of them will be XJers. If there are 20 new hires starting in October, 9 of them will be XJers.

 

[5ontheglide]

The rapid growth at Mesaba will cause...

Let's see, where have I heard this before... oh yeah... Mesaba Spring of 2005. 'Hope it works out for you!

 

[Hulk Hogan]

XJ pay rates suck. Some talk about the SF FO rate, but that is just a front to cover the well below avg jet fo rate. As said before, these rates are being compared to rates at Mesa and Pinnacle .. both of who are currently in negotiations, so that should give you an idea how old those rates are. Snapbacks should happen ... even with the snapbacks XJ payrates will be close to the bottom if not there. The snapback rates return to the 2004 book ... which should have been reality in 2008 instead of 2010 as they would be now. Most pilots on property prior to banckruptcy should be able to hold captain in the near future as well as some of the first new hires I would guess. The long time FO's are going to take a little bit of time to get PIC before being able to move on. Flowthrough...who knows. If being owned by NWA means anything (think back to 9E early 2000's) I would say XJ is an ok place to be.

 

[WMUSIGPI]

Indeed one of the goals for the next contract should be getting rid of the blended FO rate. We shall see if PBS needs to go or if it's actually liveable. Not that I am holding my breath on either, I am afraid we've opened a couple cans of worms that we will never be able to get rid of.

 

[TurboAWD]

The XJ pilots are a great group...
However, I think that even before they took the CH11 hit on their CBA, they were a bit cocky about their contract...it isn't (wasn't) THAT exceptional.
For example, they would always talk about the great SAAB FO rate... there is no SAAB FO rate. It was a SAAB/AVRO rate.

Also, as experienced pro's, they had a fair amount of negative ideas about other pilot groups, like pinnacle (admittedly that was at least partially deserved). BUT guess what- your group of professionals is about to be diluted by a bunch of backpack wearing, ipod playing newbies. Luckily you have a great core group, but just realize you will have growing pains, and that not everything that is wrong at Pinnacle or other airlines is a reflection of all the pilots that work there.

Turbo

 

[Flyer1015]

What is a snap back?

Clearly, you've never been married. A "snap back" is what happens when your wife mouths off at you after you did something she perceives as wrong. The worst is when a 'snap back' happens even if you haven't done anything wrong! This case is known as "that time of the month" you should try to bid away from home...

 

[Smarta$$]

I vote Mesaba, hands down.

 

[YourPilotFriend]

In order for 60 to flow up NWA would have to hire 600 in 2008. That is doubtful with the proposed fleet cutbacks. Another thing that has yet to be fleshed out with the flow rules is if someone who bypassses flow up still occupies a flow up position. This was the way it was at eagle I believe. You might get 60 vacancies to flow up at XJ but if the top 60 do not take them nobody goes up.

NWALPA says 9 per month not to exceed 10% of the size of the mesaba seniority list.(not NWA hiring amount)