Pinnacle vs. Mesaba

[JMO]

It's when your shirt gets tucked into your underwear...

Nice

break break

Thanks PCL_128, it's all clearer now!

 

[CFIfornow]

In order for 60 to flow up NWA would have to hire 600 in 2008. That is doubtful with the proposed fleet cutbacks. Another thing that has yet to be fleshed out with the flow rules is if someone who bypassses flow up still occupies a flow up position. This was the way it was at eagle I believe. You might get 60 vacancies to flow up at XJ but if the top 60 do not take them nobody goes up.

DT, where you get this info? I have heard the 10% rumor as well, but I have been told by one of our union guys that this is not the way it is going to work. We haven't seen the final details yet, and there is still a chance that it won't happen.

 

[SplitBar]

The flow-up limits are 3 per month from Jan-Aug and 9 per month starting in Sept 08. It has nothing to do with a percentage of new hires. If there are 6 new hires starting in January 2008, 3 of them will be XJers. If there are 20 new hires starting in October, 9 of them will be XJers.

 

[5ontheglide]

The rapid growth at Mesaba will cause...

Let's see, where have I heard this before... oh yeah... Mesaba Spring of 2005. 'Hope it works out for you!

 

[Hulk Hogan]

XJ pay rates suck. Some talk about the SF FO rate, but that is just a front to cover the well below avg jet fo rate. As said before, these rates are being compared to rates at Mesa and Pinnacle .. both of who are currently in negotiations, so that should give you an idea how old those rates are. Snapbacks should happen ... even with the snapbacks XJ payrates will be close to the bottom if not there. The snapback rates return to the 2004 book ... which should have been reality in 2008 instead of 2010 as they would be now. Most pilots on property prior to banckruptcy should be able to hold captain in the near future as well as some of the first new hires I would guess. The long time FO's are going to take a little bit of time to get PIC before being able to move on. Flowthrough...who knows. If being owned by NWA means anything (think back to 9E early 2000's) I would say XJ is an ok place to be.

 

[WMUSIGPI]

Indeed one of the goals for the next contract should be getting rid of the blended FO rate. We shall see if PBS needs to go or if it's actually liveable. Not that I am holding my breath on either, I am afraid we've opened a couple cans of worms that we will never be able to get rid of.

 

[TurboAWD]

The XJ pilots are a great group...
However, I think that even before they took the CH11 hit on their CBA, they were a bit cocky about their contract...it isn't (wasn't) THAT exceptional.
For example, they would always talk about the great SAAB FO rate... there is no SAAB FO rate. It was a SAAB/AVRO rate.

Also, as experienced pro's, they had a fair amount of negative ideas about other pilot groups, like pinnacle (admittedly that was at least partially deserved). BUT guess what- your group of professionals is about to be diluted by a bunch of backpack wearing, ipod playing newbies. Luckily you have a great core group, but just realize you will have growing pains, and that not everything that is wrong at Pinnacle or other airlines is a reflection of all the pilots that work there.

Turbo

 

[Flyer1015]

What is a snap back?

Clearly, you've never been married. A "snap back" is what happens when your wife mouths off at you after you did something she perceives as wrong. The worst is when a 'snap back' happens even if you haven't done anything wrong! This case is known as "that time of the month" you should try to bid away from home...

 

[Smarta$$]

I vote Mesaba, hands down.

 

[YourPilotFriend]

In order for 60 to flow up NWA would have to hire 600 in 2008. That is doubtful with the proposed fleet cutbacks. Another thing that has yet to be fleshed out with the flow rules is if someone who bypassses flow up still occupies a flow up position. This was the way it was at eagle I believe. You might get 60 vacancies to flow up at XJ but if the top 60 do not take them nobody goes up.

NWALPA says 9 per month not to exceed 10% of the size of the mesaba seniority list.(not NWA hiring amount)

 

[Boris Badenov]

Just how horrible is the life of a 9E reserve captain? Would a "semi-street-captain" hired today spend three years of 10 days off a month, or will the PBS system benefit reserve guys at all?

Thanks.

 

[bluefishbeagle]

It doesn't matter which you choose because both make sure you will not want to stay any longer than necessary to build time and move on.

The top of the pay scale is the carrot, and the work rules quality of life is the stick.

 

[kmox29]

Wow...I've been gone over a year, but the gool ol' grudge match between 9E and XJ is still alive! I thought with the creation of Compass that you guys would join in a unified hatred of the new stepchild.

I don't miss the job, but I certainly miss the people I worked with at XJ. I wish all of you the best.

 

[willbob]

Clearly, you've never been married. A "snap back" is what happens when your wife mouths off at you after you did something she perceives as wrong. The worst is when a 'snap back' happens even if you haven't done anything wrong! This case is known as "that time of the month" you should try to bid away from home...

Now that,s funny!, actually I thought is was what happens when you get a bunch of high school boys in the gym shower room with wet rat tailed towels..ouch

 

[FlyingGuy]

Currently Mesaba has better work rules but who knows once 9E's contract is done? Another factor since you want DTW is that is Pinnacle's junior base which will help your QOL while I believe DTW is senior for Mesaba.

 

[AvroJockey]

I remember this exact thread about 2-3 years ago. All the the Mesaba pilots were saying go to Mesaba, and all the Pinnacle pilots were saying go to Mesaba. Some eventually pointed out the obvious!

Anyway...I spent 8 years at Mesaba, and enjoyed my time there. Sure, there were tuff times, but I always enjoyed going to work there. The people you work with on a day-to-day basis are first class. Also, now that JR is back things can will only get better!

You don't hear any Pinnacle pilots singing praises about their airline.

 

[FlyingGuy]

"You don't hear any Pinnacle pilots singing praises about their airline."

That may be because we don't know how to polish a turd.....however we have great people too and I for one enjoy the flying. However there is no getting around the low pay and lousy work rules. Both companies have to live under the thumb of penny-pinchers that take orders from NWA. Meanwhile Pinnacle stock is up 200% in the past year and management doesn't appear to have QOL issues. You never know until you leave or retire if you picked the right company. Pinnacle is a gamble now in my opinion until the contract is finished. We may be on strike later this year or we may end up with a decent (for a regional) agreement. The good thing is there is no reason you have to stay if things don't work out. They're both stepping stones for most people though I know many that would like to be there for good if some reasonable improvements were made.

 

[fly4ever]

A snapback is something that is supposed to happen when "growth" actually occurs which is not happening at Mesaba. "Replacement" is what is happening.

"Growth" is a long ways off.

 

[Hulk Hogan]

22 of 26 New Hires on the latest vacancy are going to DTW. MSP will start moving again once the 200 training kick back into gear. MEM is a stagnant right now until the 900 makes its way down there. Most junior cpt is DTW, MSP is pretty close.

 

[Boris Badenov]

And about the QOL if you come in with 3500 and upgrade fast?

Sorry, but I don't know where else to ask. 10 days off for 3 years makes all that jet PIC seem way less sweet.