Pinnacle purchases 15 Q400

[funnyman12]

Curious question for PCL pilots....What are some of the details of the contract you are proposing? I checked the payrates and captains are on par with other CRJ-200 operators...first officers are much lower than industy standards. Just wondering what you guys are asking for.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Curious question for PCL pilots....What are some of the details of the contract you are proposing? I checked the payrates and captains are on par with other CRJ-200 operators...first officers are much lower than industy standards. Just wondering what you guys are asking for.

• 100% DHD pay.
• Block or better.
• Increased hourly rates
• Retro
• better retirement/401k
• CVR/FDR language protection
• work rules to promote better staffing
• complete and total overhaul of reserve work rules

you know....the baiscs.. nothing fancy...

 

[funnyman12]

sounds rational....what type of pay rate increases?

 

[BOHICAgain]

sounds rational....what type of pay rate increases?

This is the part that bugs me. They want avarge pay scales to what other airlines signed 2-3 years ago so in like 5 years 9e will still be near the bottom. It should be like 23 1st year 34 second year and captains like a 3% initial followed by a 1% a year

 

[Cheeba]

PCL_128 thank you for the post with the contract language in it. I think the big question still remains though: What is the contractual definition of "COMPANY". Is COMPANY defined by your contract as Pinnacle Airlines, or Pinnacle Airlines Holdings? If you could post the contract excerpt with that answer I think that would clear up about half of arguments on Flight Info.

 

[Lear70]

Doesn't matter.

Pinnacle Airlines Corp was formed BY Pinnacle Airlines, Inc AFTER the Agreement was signed. Same management team. Same address.

Means it's a "successor" under most interpretations.

Doesn't mean a court can't change all that with one ruling. That's what sucks about the law - everything is open to re-interpretation without existing case law.

 

[Lear70]

D*mn double post.

This server SUCKS.

 

[PCL_128]

sounds rational....what type of pay rate increases?

I won't post actual rates, but suffice it to say that our original proposal was for industry-leading rates.

 

[dingo222]

we all should be frickin lobbyist's as much time as we spend debating and trying to sell our ideas. I'm sure as hell it pays better, and the perks aren't too bad either.

 

[captboy2001]

so would pinnapple guys be b*tching if they were adding more saab routes?? or is it just the q400 that bothers you.....with the whole scope cause

 

[redflyer65]

Directly from the contract....

"This agreement will be binding upon ANY successor or merged company or companies or ANY successor in the control of the company, regardless of the nature of the transfer of control...."

I think that is pretty clear gentleman. It doesn't have to say anything about Corp or Holding companies. It covers it all.

 

[dingo222]

well, get some guys back up to speed on the saab. we have 4 of those coming online soon also

 

[suupah]

It sounds to me like this is saying that any company that takes over control of pinnacle airlines has to honor this contract.

so say that Skywest bought pinnacle airlines, they couldn't just walk in and throw out your contract but would have to honor it.

Can you cut and paste the specific part of the contract that speaks about flying and pinnacle pilots?

 

[redflyer65]

I think their argument will be that Holdings doesn't "control" Pinnacle Airlines. But I think that is pretty bogus and the intent of the contract will show through.

The other section about flying is this....

"All present and future flying of any form performed by or for the company will be performed by pilots on the Pilots' System Seniority List.."

Another interesting section....

"The company will not create or control another airline for the purpose of transferrin the assests of the company to such airline and avoiding its obligations to the pilots of the company under this agreement."

We really aren't interested in taking anyones flying. We would rather merge the list, then work together for better work rules and pay for everyone.

Unfortunately, this management group doesn't really like to give us any of that. That's why its so important to work together.

 

[funnyman12]

First of all....PCL pilots initially said "welcome fellow brothers". Now that we have the Q400 deal (which has been in the workd for 2 years) the attitude on this website certainly has changed.(understanding the loudest pilots in each pilot groups are usually the 1000+ posts people) Do you guys think that threatning us is going to convince us to unionize and combine lists??? Well if your goal is to be our brothers, you guys are only making us angry and not willing to work together. Lets say that Colgan joined ALPA and decided NOT to combine senority lists....which if we did decide to unionize I bet the CJC pilots would want separate senority lists. What would PCL guys think of that....im guessing you would all be against that also. What do you want us to do to make your guys happy...maybe some good ol' KY jelly. Sounds like we have a double edged knife on our hands. Right now the PCL pilot group seems to be a more threatning group than management. Management said we were bout to grow and get larger planes and the have delivered on their word. (not to say there are many obstacles ahead) that is pretty scary. If you guys want to be our brother, talk to us that way. We were just sold and of course we want to grow Your lives haven't changed thusfar. If management starts using us as a tool in your contract negotiations, or you think they will, in a professional way tell us what we can do. Instead of saying you are going to limit our growth...tells us how your lives will be worse and together we can prevent that!!

 

[suupah]

I think their argument will be that Holdings doesn't "control" Pinnacle Airlines. But I think that is pretty bogus and the intent of the contract will show through.

I am not sure. i think it might be that they control pinnacle airlines but that they are not infringing on this contractual agreement with the pinnacle airlines pilot group at all with the purchase of Colgan.

"All present and future flying of any form performed by or for the company will be performed by pilots on the Pilots' System Seniority List.."

So i guess the question is who "the company is". Like you said they will probably argue that Colgan isn't doing any flying that was intended for pinnacle airlines.

"The company will not create or control another airline for the purpose of transferrin the assests of the company to such airline and avoiding its obligations to the pilots of the company under this agreement."

I think again that they will argue that they are not transferring any assets to Colgan air that were intended for or owned by pinnacle airlines. They will probably say that they are in no way falling short of its contractual obligations to the pinnacle pilots. But it all comes back to who "the company" is.

 

[dingo222]

if the "juice" can commit murder and walk, then write a book about "how he would have done it" anything is possible. I should have been a sh*thouse lawyer so that I could have had a 28,000 sq foot house like Jon Edwards.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

If you guys want to be our brother, talk to us that way. We were just sold and of course we want to grow Your lives haven't changed thusfar. If management starts using us as a tool in your contract negotiations, or you think they will, in a professional way tell us what we can do. Instead of saying you are going to limit our growth...tells us how your lives will be worse and together we can prevent that!!

Will do.... let's stay the course and not respond to this and that rather stick to a game plan...

The divide and counquer efforts of management will be strong....

 

[dingo222]

agreed man, thats why i quit commenting on these posts other than for comic relief. This is just what they want. 2 pilot groups to learn to hate each other. I haven't been doing this flying thing long, but I spent the last 12 years in USASOC ( army special operations command). Our big saying was "teach snakes to kill other snakes." THat's exactly what we are doing. We are going after one another rather than the people that we should be worried about. My 2 cents. I'm 6 beers deep and off till friday, so it escape reality time

 

[suupah]

DINGO222 wins avatars of the year!