Pinnacle, pilots union meet with mediators

[Flyer1015]

Northwest Airlines feeder carrier Pinnacle Airlines and its pilots' union met Tuesday with federal mediators to speed up contract negotiations, both parties said. Meetings with the National Mediation Board also are scheduled for today and Thursday. The Air Line Pilots Association and Memphis, Tenn.-based Pinnacle, an exclusive provider of regional service for Eagan-based Northwest, have been negotiating since January 2005. The stakes were raised this summer when Pinnacle said Northwest wouldn't settle a new flight contract unless it has a pilot labor contract in place, said Wakefield Gordon, head of the local Air Line Pilots Association at Pinnacle. Pinnacle employs roughly 1,200 pilots. Pinnacle made its last formal contract offer to pilots in May.

http://www.twincities.com/mld/twincities/business/15615810.htm

 

[kmox29]

The stakes were raised this summer when Pinnacle said Northwest wouldn't settle a new flight contract unless it has a pilot labor contract in place...

OH NO! What ever will you guys do!?!

 

[Flyer1015]

I hope they also have scope protection, and demand that Pinnacle pilots will perform all flying by Pinnacle Airlines or Pinnacle holding corporation.



------>


Historically, the pact between the two has been that Northwest provides Pinnacle with planes and guarantees a certain level of business, but Pinnacle can fly for no other carrier.

Under the new deal, Pinnacle expects to be free to seek other business, creating potential, Trenary says, for Pinnacle to become a larger airline.

"Let's just say, things could be very good," he said.

Pinnacle plans to create a subsidiary airline to cover the outside growth. It is promising its pilot union all Northwest flights, including any new routes Northwest adds as it emerges from bankruptcy.

That rankles the pilots, who feel growth would be siphoned off to other pilots. "They have informed us at the negotiating table that those flights in the subsidiary will be manned by whatever pilots they wish, including nonunion pilots," said Wakefield Gordon, chairman of the Pinnacle master executive council. "We want our job security guaranteed from Pinnacle Corp. (the airline's holding company) as well as Pinnacle Airlines Inc."


From:

http://www.commercialappeal.com/mca/business_columnists/article/0,1426,MCA_441_5020633,00.html

 

[Smarta$$]

I hope they also have scope protection, and demand that Pinnacle pilots will perform all flying by Pinnacle Airlines or Pinnacle holding corporation.



------>


Historically, the pact between the two has been that Northwest provides Pinnacle with planes and guarantees a certain level of business, but Pinnacle can fly for no other carrier.

Under the new deal, Pinnacle expects to be free to seek other business, creating potential, Trenary says, for Pinnacle to become a larger airline.

"Let's just say, things could be very good," he said.

Pinnacle plans to create a subsidiary airline to cover the outside growth. It is promising its pilot union all Northwest flights, including any new routes Northwest adds as it emerges from bankruptcy.

That rankles the pilots, who feel growth would be siphoned off to other pilots. "They have informed us at the negotiating table that those flights in the subsidiary will be manned by whatever pilots they wish, including nonunion pilots," said Wakefield Gordon, chairman of the Pinnacle master executive council. "We want our job security guaranteed from Pinnacle Corp. (the airline's holding company) as well as Pinnacle Airlines Inc."


From:

http://www.commercialappeal.com/mca/business_columnists/article/0,1426,MCA_441_5020633,00.html

Those are very troubling words about scope in that article. I hope every single pilot has seen the example of what gayjets and other alter ego companies due to the existing pilot group.

This for me would be the single most important section of negotiations! Make sure you let your reps know if you feel the same.

 

[Terry Hunter]

Does anyone know... and I don't really want to bring this up.... but does Pinnacle still have the Saab on their operating certificate?

 

[wheelsup]

Those are very troubling words about scope in that article. I hope every single pilot has seen the example of what gayjets and other alter ego companies due to the existing pilot group.

This for me would be the single most important section of negotiations! Make sure you let your reps know if you feel the same.

Remember what mesa did with freedom? They "took one for the team" and signed a crappy contract to get scope.

History repeats itself...

 

[Terry Hunter]

bump for our friends, lear70, dointime, Crowne, donk, and others.

 

[CrownandCoke]

bump for our friends, lear70, dointime, Crowne, donk, and others.

thanks coach. The conference call should be interesting tomorrow....

 

[Longhorn]

Hey now...I feel left out :-( What about me?
Just kidding. Thanks for the bump. Interesting to see this happening. I wish you all the best, still many good friends over there.

 

[ataopsdave]

Do you guys think the the conference call will be good news or bad news...my bet is bad news.........my mec speaks for me

 

[Flyer1015]

Hey now...I feel left out :-( What about me?
Just kidding. Thanks for the bump. Interesting to see this happening. I wish you all the best, still many good friends over there.

You're ex-PNCL? Where did you go, like, where are you now? Just curious.

 

[CrownandCoke]

Do you guys think the the conference call will be good news or bad news...my bet is bad news.........my mec speaks for me

I'm thinking it will be good news, but I'm an optimistic bastard...

 

[ataopsdave]

I'm thinking it will be good news, but I'm an optimistic bastard...

I am also optimistic...we shall see tomorrow

 

[CrownandCoke]

I am also optimistic...we shall see tomorrow

the way I see it, there's gonna be two things they can tell us.

1. We are very close to a contract
2. We are no closer to a contract than our last conference call.

 

[ReverseSensing]

Those are very troubling words about scope in that article. I hope every single pilot has seen the example of what gayjets and other alter ego companies due to the existing pilot group.

This for me would be the single most important section of negotiations! Make sure you let your reps know if you feel the same.

Remember what mesa did with freedom? They "took one for the team" and signed a crappy contract to get scope.

History repeats itself...

Every regional MEC/EXCO out there will be trying to get parent company/holding company/air group scope during their next time through the contract dance, and every management group out there will try to make it seem like the most massively expensive bargaining item in the history of contract negotiations, even if they don't particularly give a crap.

For management, the cat's out of the bag -- everyone expects the ol' alter ego trick. For pilot reps, the trick is to get scope without giving away the farm. The problem is, the worse you want something, the more expensive it gets.

Bottom line: I think we're doomed.

 

[DoinTime]

For pilot reps, the trick is to get scope without giving away the farm.

PCL pilots don't have to "give up the farm" to get scope. Our current agreement already scopes PNCL Holdings. The company is trying to get us to give scope back to them.

 

[Flyer1015]

PCL pilots don't have to "give up the farm" to get scope. Our current agreement already scopes PNCL Holdings. The company is trying to get us to give scope back to them.

Tell 'em to shove it!

Hurt PT's feelings, that clown deserves it!

 

[ReverseSensing]

PCL pilots don't have to "give up the farm" to get scope. Our current agreement already scopes PNCL Holdings. The company is trying to get us to give scope back to them.

Good. Glad to hear it. I was speaking more generically.

 

[lancair360]

This for me would be the single most important section of negotiations! Make sure you let your reps know if you feel the same.

No **** Sherlock. Our Reps. know how we feel. The race to the bottom ends right here with 9E.

 

[kmox29]

I'm thinking it will be good news, but I'm an optimistic bastard...

Not to shoot down your optimism (because being optimistic can be a good thing), but any contract offered to you by 9E management is going to be a big stinking pile of manure.

You can get a contract done tonight, if you're willing to fly for Mesa pay rates.

 

[kmox29]

The race to the bottom ends right here with 9E.

Actually, the race to the bottom is ending next door to you guys. Heard of Mesaba?

Unless you were an Express I pilot, you have no idea how bad things are going to get.

 

[Smarta$$]

Every regional MEC/EXCO out there will be trying to get parent company/holding company/air group scope during their next time through the contract dance, and every management group out there will try to make it seem like the most massively expensive bargaining item in the history of contract negotiations, even if they don't particularly give a crap.

For management, the cat's out of the bag -- everyone expects the ol' alter ego trick. For pilot reps, the trick is to get scope without giving away the farm. The problem is, the worse you want something, the more expensive it gets.

Bottom line: I think we're doomed.

We can thank GOATJET for that!

 

[Smarta$$]

Not to shoot down your optimism (because being optimistic can be a good thing), but any contract offered to you by 9E management is going to be a big stinking pile of manure.

You can get a contract done tonight, if you're willing to fly for Mesa pay rates.

Wow, you sound like a pinnacle expert. How long did you work there?

 

[CrownandCoke]

Not to shoot down your optimism (because being optimistic can be a good thing), but any contract offered to you by 9E management is going to be a big stinking pile of manure.

You can get a contract done tonight, if you're willing to fly for Mesa pay rates.

of course we could get a contract done tonight if we were willing to fly for Mesa pay rates, but we're not...hence the reason we have been in negotiations.

Nothing could be worse than the current contract we have now...

 

[JethroFDX]

Unless you were an Express I pilot, you have no idea how bad things are going to get.

And I never got my J31 type. :angryfire


Before the monsoon hit MEM last night I talked with another former 'Linker, who left about 8 years ago, that he could never imagine how things are over there now. He thought it was bad during the Brady years.

Good luck bro's.

 

[kmox29]

Wow, you sound like a pinnacle expert. How long did you work there?

I've worked for the altenate dimension Pinnacle Airlines (called Mesaba) for 7 years. My point was that if you can't see what they are doing to Mesaba and how the same sham and tactics will be used against Pinnalce, you're blind.

It doesn't take an expert to see that.

 

[kmox29]

Nothing could be worse than the current contract we have now...

Have you seen what they're proposing to Mesaba?

 

[Lear70]

For management, the cat's out of the bag -- everyone expects the ol' alter ego trick. For pilot reps, the trick is to get scope without giving away the farm. The problem is, the worse you want something, the more expensive it gets.

Yeah, but the reps are savvy to it and don't have to give up an INCH of current Scope. It's already in there and with the record profits for 5 years and counting, the company is gonna have to come off that pile of cash.

Maybe not to the tune that everyone WANTS, but it will be FAR from concessionary unless the MEC just screws the pooch which I seriously doubt will happen with the current domicile reps in place.

Bottom line: I think we're doomed.

Oh ye of little faith... and I thought people said I was pessimistic.

No need to bump for me, I've been up outta that beyatch for almost half a year now. Hard to believe, but SOOOO sweet!

Just got back from an 8-day cruise out towards St Thomas, St. Maarten,,, gained 5 pounds but it was WORTH it! imp:

 

[Sun Devil 2000]

FLYER1015

Love the Pic of uncle Phil

 

[WildBlue]

Most of you guys have no idea what you are talking about.

Pinnacle pilots are being whipsawed not only by Mesaba but Compass and Republic. Take a short look at the CEO of Compass. Neil Cohen is the guy making all the moves in the NW bankruptcy, and he is the CEO of Compass. Where do you think his next big payday is? Compass will be IPO'd in a few years for twice what PCL brought to NW and Cohen/Steenland will be there for their shares.

PCL pilots are left with two options: take whatever they can get in the way of workrules/scope or watch their jobs go to Republic or Compass. The NMB is not going to let them go on strike so the by hanging tough, they simply watch their careers melt away.

There is not a "WIN" scenario out there for the PCL guys.