Pinnacle/Mesaba/Colgan SLI!

[xjhawk]

xjhawk,

Yes it is, and Pinnacle holdings management has already admit that. The Mesaba CRJ-900s and 200s are an "asset transfer" to Pinnacle Airlines Inc.

Time line buddy.......timeline. MEsaba Colgan and Pinnacle all owned by Pinnacle Holdings....(how many times does this need to be said?) One contract-one Seniority list-then the transfer of planes for ease of operation under certificates to make managing them more profitable. So your precious asset transfer and republic model still does not apply. The Jets will be transferred with the pilots seniority intact from the binding SLI.

I will say it again-you are a piece of.......work

 

[the palm]

On, or before, Friday May 20.

Once it comes out, I am willing to bet we will see a thread that will have a record amount of posts within 24 hours. Someone said 10 pages, I think it'll be far more.

We're gonna need a new forum. Mods are bound to move it to some non-aviation chat room.

 

[the palm]

Oh, and my money says Mesaba takes it in the rear on the SLI and Colgan gets a windfall.

 

[xjgearbtch]

On, or before, Friday May 20.

Once it comes out, I am willing to bet we will see a thread that will have a record amount of posts within 24 hours. Someone said 10 pages, I think it'll be far more.

Five of those pages will be written by you. Yawn.

 

[sinkrate]

I cannot believe how this argument is stupid-Hey Doing Time-figure it out, this is not a transfer of assets-Mesaba pilots had language in the contract to fly these airplanes-the new contract Pinnacle Holdings got for buying Mesaba ensures future profits (there is a point to be made that Delta forced the sale on Pinnacle by giving awesome financing). So guess what? Your precious flying over at 9E did nothing to buy Mesaba. This situation is nothing like 97' unless you are telling us that MAIR Holdings bought Express or part of Express back in 97? You and all your idiot buddies over at Pinnacle (the ones that are not arguing this are not idiots) are just using this as a argument to steal seniority. Oh and just because you are so fond of Republic I think you should go there-you are about as nice and bright as those guys who screwed two good airlines.

Actually, there are a lot more financial similarities than people realize. In '97 Express was a private company that owned all its AC. Then NW bought Express. NW then took all of Express's MSP operation and sold it to Mesaba - and supplied all the financing. Mesaba gave NW a large chunbk of its' stock in return. At that point we were both in hock to NW and NW was manipulating our assets. In '98 NW took another chunk of Mesaba's stock when they awarded the 36 AVRO's to them, and provided the AC. When NW awarded Mesaba a large contract to expand the SF3 fleet NW provided the financing and took more of Mesaba's stock in exchange. By 2001 both Express and Mesaba were majority owned by NW. By 2004 NW had divested most of its stock holdings in the two companies. They were both independent companies again. By 2007 Mesaba was owned by NW - again. Now Delta is providing financing to PCL - again.

The current transaction is just another in a lengthy list of deals that will continue. Reality is Mesaba and PCL have been sister companies that have been whipsawed since NW bought Express and the AVRO's for Mesaba.

In the grievance over the purchase of Colgan the Arbitrator ruled that PNCL Corp was an 'alter ego' of INC and that in fact Corp and Inc are one in the same Company. PCL management never challenged that ruling. PCL mangement challenged the Arbitrators jurisdiction over Corp. In the eyes of the NMB, and the Arbitrator that will decide the SLI, Corp and INC are one in the same companies. Not that it will make a difference in the award.

I make no claims, or grabs, to anyones seniority. NW has been whipsawing PCL and Mesaba for a long time. We both gave up major contract desires, and concessions, in order to finally put the two groups together and end it. Now lets put the seniority list together and move on. In a few years we will all face much larger problems.

 

[bri5150]

In the grievance over the purchase of Colgan the Arbitrator ruled that PNCL Corp was an 'alter ego' of INC and that in fact Corp and Inc are one in the same Company. PCL management never challenged that ruling. PCL mangement challenged the Arbitrators jurisdiction over Corp. In the eyes of the NMB, and the Arbitrator that will decide the SLI, Corp and INC are one in the same companies. Not that it will make a difference in the award.

I can tell you for fact that holding companies and their 'alter ego's are not treated as on in the same. Ask any who went through shamrupty at Mesaba. They may have ruled that way for you guys, but it would only be put into effect when management wanted it put into effect.

 

[sinkrate]

I can tell you for fact that holding companies and their 'alter ego's are not treated as on in the same. Ask any who went through shamrupty at Mesaba. They may have ruled that way for you guys, but it would only be put into effect when management wanted it put into effect.

What a Bankruptcy Court and the NMB consider 'Alter Egos' is two different things. A Company that is an Alter Ego for the NMB and labor negotiations can be a 'holding company' in Bankruptcy Court. It is two separate, distinct issues. The NMB's view is the relevant one in our SLI. Once again - not that it will make any difference to Mesaba pilots.

 

[DoinTime]

It seems from the reading I have done that acquiring carrier status does only one thing in seniority list arbitration and thats deciding who ends up being #1. If the number 1 guy on the combined list is a Pinnacle guy, Bloch thinks that Pinnacle was the acquiring carrier.

 

[Inconceivable]

Reality is Mesaba and PCL have been sister companies that have been whipsawed since NW bought Express and the AVRO's for Mesaba.

This is the wisest thing that I have read on this board in nearly a decade. Like southern race relations, northern union-baiting, or a host of other social issues keep the poor at each others' throats with empty rhetoric while the rich get richer.

 

[Flyer1015]

Time line buddy.......timeline. MEsaba Colgan and Pinnacle all owned by Pinnacle Holdings....(how many times does this need to be said?) One contract-one Seniority list-then the transfer of planes for ease of operation under certificates to make managing them more profitable. So your precious asset transfer and republic model still does not apply. The Jets will be transferred with the pilots seniority intact from the binding SLI.

I will say it again-you are a piece of.......work

Why won't you recognize that "Holdings" was an alter-ego shell company formed specifically so that Colgan could be bought and operated without using Pinnacle seniority pilots. Before, we were just "Pinnacle Airlines." Overnight, I found out I work for Pinnacle Airlines Inc, and my new "holding" company was Pinnacle Airlines Holdings (Corp). Why can't you understand? You of all people should know how shell games work. Hello? MAIR and Big Sky?

Regardless, though, by definition, it is an asset transfer. When you move only the RJs from one regional to another, either it's a merger or an asset transfer. In this case, it's an asset transfer. Here is Mesaba's future: all 60 RJs go to Pinnacle. The remaining Saabs are parked, and some to LGA US Air flying. Colgan stays, Mesaba remnant props come to Colgan. Colgan certificate renamed Mesaba, and Mesaba's original certificate goes toast. Mesaba's future now looks so much better. Before, you'd be down to 60 RJs and maybe 7 Saabs at best, and have to furlough from your list of 1,070 pilots. Now, you have one list, and any furloughs or downgrades resulting from a loss of Saabs will be "distributed" amongst Colgan and Pinnacle pilots on the list as well. One list was in your best interest, and IMO, I think Mesaba MEC paved the way for that list, because they knew the alternative would be a career-ender/stagnater for many, many Mesaba pilots.