Pinnacle Jumpseat

[DiverDriver]

Ok... I am NOT... repeat ... NOT trying to start a flame war. That stuff is just old and tired.

Could the Pinnacle pilots please pressure your company to add balast to the back of the plane or have sandbags available so that the cockpit JS is open again? I have been bumped because of balance issues (not weight issues) quite a few times in the past 6 months. Do you all know of anything being done to bring back a usuable cockpit JS?


And thanks for all the rides you HAVE given me over the course of my commuting life. Much appreciated.

 

[DoinTime]

Talk to the Captain and let him know if balance will be a problem. We can usually get it worked out if we know at least 10 minutes out. The gate agents DO NOT care if you get on.

 

[xjlifer]

Talk to the Captain and let him know if balance will be a problem. We can usually get it worked out if we know at least 10 minutes out. The gate agents DO NOT care if you get on.

The above is very true. I have always had 9E guys go above and beyond to get me on. The gate agents ...well that is a different story

 

[DiverDriver]

Talk to the Captain and let him know if balance will be a problem. We can usually get it worked out if we know at least 10 minutes out. The gate agents DO NOT care if you get on.

That's kinda the problem. Some CAs HAVE known more than 30 minutes prior and I was left due to balance and "no ballast available". I find it hard to believe that all of Detroit International Airport has no balast on the B and C terminals. If it's true then could you guys please push to have more ballast available?

 

[Lear70]

Could the Pinnacle pilots please pressure your company to add balast to the back of the plane or have sandbags available so that the cockpit JS is open again? I have been bumped because of balance issues (not weight issues) quite a few times in the past 6 months. Do you all know of anything being done to bring back a usuable cockpit JS?

Yeah, that'll happen...

I'm sure that's right up there at the top of Nonconnah's to-do list along with getting the Q-400 online at the lowest "competitive" wage in the industry.

It's been like that since the W&B ACARS procedure went into effect at PCL. A full boat with a light baggage load always results in a forward CG. Easiest way to pad it is to "hint" to the fueler to put an extra 1,000 pounds or so of fuel on the airplane if you're not full up in the wings.

 

[DiverDriver]

The above is very true. I have always had 9E guys go above and beyond to get me on. The gate agents ...well that is a different story

Actually the agents have been very nice to me. They just go with what the load planner says and it's usually "no" because no ballast. I just don't understand and am looking for some help in understanding their system.

 

[DiverDriver]

Yeah, that'll happen...

I'm sure that's right up there at the top of Nonconnah's to-do list along with getting the Q-400 online at the lowest "competitive" wage in the industry.

It's been like that since the W&B ACARS procedure went into effect at PCL. A full boat with a light baggage load always results in a forward CG. Easiest way to pad it is to "hint" to the fueler to put an extra 1,000 pounds or so of fuel on the airplane if you're not full up in the wings.

How is adding 1,000 pounds of fuel helping?

 

[ataopsdave]

I commute out of SBN and SBN is really good about putting the ballast on but the trouble we have is with Mesaba in DTW...They are just lazy...They told me once that they would load the ballast if I went and found it...so I did and I was able to go home...That is usually what I have to do every time now

 

[DiverDriver]

I commute out of SBN and SBN is really good about putting the ballast on but the trouble we have is with Mesaba in DTW...They are just lazy...They told me once that they would load the ballast if I went and found it...so I did and I was able to go home...That is usually what I have to do every time now

How do I go find the balast if I'm not a NW person who get on the ramp?

 

[Stifler's Mom]

I personally avoid non-reving on all CRJ and ERJ 50-seat models if possible. Those friggin' things leave with empty seats more often than not due to weight and balance issues.

POS's!

 

[DiverDriver]

I personally avoid non-reving on all CRJ and ERJ 50-seat models if possible. Those friggin' things leave with empty seats more often than not due to weight and balance issues.

POS's!

I'm on the CRJ and I fly full most places I go. That's full 50. I believe where the ERJ runs into problems is that the max ZFW is 3000# less than the CRJ. This causes problems on short legs. But the CRJ is ok as long as you have the correct balance and that's where I'm running into a problem. The FAA changed the weights for pax and it really messed with the balance. They didn't really change the weight for the bags and since the bags go in the back instead of underneath we have a problem. Some companies have put a permanent balast in the tailcone or bolted to the floor of the cargo bin. Other things can be done to alleviate the nose heaviness of the CRJ like showing crew bags in the back and going down to one coffee maker. Little things add up. I haven't needed to carry balast in a long while after the number shuffle and the permanent balast was added in order to carry someone up front. I'm just asking for a little help to reduce the stress of commuting.

I like the Pinnacle guys. They've always treated me with respect. It seems something in their system is preventing full access to the cockpit JS.

 

[DoinTime]

Actually the agents have been very nice to me. They just go with what the load planner says and it's usually "no" because no ballast. I just don't understand and am looking for some help in understanding their system.

In the case of DTW the entire problem revolves around Mesaba ground operations. PCL load controlers (don't mistake PCL load control with XJ ground services) are under strick instructions to add ballast to accomodate jumpseaters if ballast is needed and can be accomodated. The problem lies with XJ ground service getting off their lazy a**es and loading it on. Unfortunately, baring intervention from the captain, XJ has the last say.

If the captain is worth a sh*t they will got the extra mile to make sure it gets done. Usually, just relocating the crew bags to the cargo bin solves the problem.

 

[405]

PCL load controllers don't exist anymore. That full time job was eliminated and dumped on the PCL dispatchers by management.

 

[405]

Then again, who cares about a dispatcher's job, right?

 

[regionalcap]

Yeah, that'll happen...

I'm sure that's right up there at the top of Nonconnah's to-do list along with getting the Q-400 online at the lowest "competitive" wage in the industry.

It's been like that since the W&B ACARS procedure went into effect at PCL. A full boat with a light baggage load always results in a forward CG. Easiest way to pad it is to "hint" to the fueler to put an extra 1,000 pounds or so of fuel on the airplane if you're not full up in the wings.

Adding fuel makes the CG more forward which hurts you.

 

[redflyer65]

I always go way out of my way to get someone in the seat. I will NOT leave until the ballast is on board.

The magic cargo number is right at 1800 pounds of cargo. Anything above that the CG will be good.

The reason PCL doesn't mount permanent ballast? Money.
Number one to actually buy the AD and install it. And number two, the cost to fly around the extra weight when you don't need it. They have actually been trying to trim weight wherever they can.

So for your problems, but keep trying to talk directly to the captain and see if you can ask about the cargo load.

 

[xjlifer]

In the case of DTW the entire problem revolves around Mesaba ground operations. PCL load controlers (don't mistake PCL load control with XJ ground services) are under strick instructions to add ballast to accomodate jumpseaters if ballast is needed and can be accomodated. The problem lies with XJ ground service getting off their lazy a**es and loading it on. Unfortunately, baring intervention from the captain, XJ has the last say.

If the captain is worth a sh*t they will got the extra mile to make sure it gets done. Usually, just relocating the crew bags to the cargo bin solves the problem.

Classic case of getting what you pay for. The good ground and gate agent's ( there are some) try but with the revolving door that has always been DTW it is tough. XJ/NWA management would rather hire then fire or watch them quit in droves than provide a decent job for them.

Many of the ground/Gate agents either look like they just got out on weekend leave or still have a ankle bracelet on.

 

[PCL_128]

Adding fuel makes the CG more forward which hurts you.

Ummm, no.

 

[undpilot]

Flying out of DTW yesterday dispatch said we needed 1800 in the cargo to get the jumpseater on. Mesaba said there was no ballast available so we had to leave the jumpseater behind. After we left the gate the dispatcher told us to return to the gate to get ballast just for our current load. Magically, Mesaba now had ballast to add to the cargo. Seems to always be a problem in DTW.

 

[ShutupandFly]

Yeah, that'll happen...

I'm sure that's right up there at the top of Nonconnah's to-do list along with getting the Q-400 online at the lowest "competitive" wage in the industry.

It's been like that since the W&B ACARS procedure went into effect at PCL. A full boat with a light baggage load always results in a forward CG. Easiest way to pad it is to "hint" to the fueler to put an extra 1,000 pounds or so of fuel on the airplane if you're not full up in the wings.

Most of the time this will not work and I have had too many instances where an acraft was fueled to attempt this before the Capt had the final load numbers. Next thing we know we are over taxi wt and pulling the JS anyways or sitting at the gate burnning of fuel with the apu at 200 lb and hr. Your best bet is talking with the Capt and trying to get the ballast, all of the Capt's I know will usually go above and beyond to get you on board. Sometimes It's just not going to happen. Keeping in mind that you also have dispatchers doing the load control now, we also jumpseat and are more likley to help the Capt get you on board.

 

[zonker]

Got bumped the other day in MSP because there wasn't any ballast available. I don't understand why they don't have ballast in a major hub?

I talked to the captain well before the flight, but he couldn't make it work.

 

[undpilot]

Got bumped the other day in MSP because there wasn't any ballast available. I don't understand why they don't have ballast in a major hub?

I talked to the captain well before the flight, but he couldn't make it work.

Pinnacle has no say on what goes on on the ramp in MSP. Mesaba runs the ramp (poorly at best) and Pinnacle's ASA with Northwest requires NW to choose the ground service provider in MSP and DTW. So for now we are stuck with crappy service and no ballast.

 

[de Pez]

Thanks to all the Pinnacle crews who have gone out of their way to get the jumpseaters on over the years. With only one exception they have consistently gone above and beyond what I felt was called for. Most gate agents (typically NW) have been fine also as long as you show up with plenty of time before the departure. Showing up with cookies doesn't hurt either.

 

[Grinder10]

I've heard this in DTW more times than I can count:

Pilot: Flagship 5900 needs ballast at C27.
Ops: We don't have any.
Pilot: You're telling me we have zero ballast at this airport.
Ops: That's right.

 

[PCL_128]

I've heard this in DTW more times than I can count:

Pilot: Flagship 5900 needs ballast at C27.
Ops: We don't have any.
Pilot: You're telling me we have zero ballast at this airport.
Ops: That's right.

I used to get this crap all the time. Just make it clear to the rampers and the gate agent that the airplane won't be moving until they put enough ballast on board to take the jumpseater. "Magically" they'll come up with the ballast rather quickly.

 

[Lyconit]

Could the Pinnacle pilots please pressure your company to add balast to the back of the plane or have sandbags available so that the cockpit JS is open again?

ring ring...
PT:hello?
Crew:hello, PT?, even though you are an a$$clown and I know fuel is only 3 times what it was last year, but you REALLY need to carry more weight (i.e. ballast) around the system on the airplanes so we can commute.
PT:no problem, anything for you guys/gals!
thanks PT, BTW, what's jingle pants phone number?
...
ring ring
JP:hello?
Crew:Hello Jingle Pants? I know there is not enough ramp people in MSP and DTW to load passenger bags, push back airplanes and such, but they REALLY need to spend more time looking for and loading ballast so we can commute.
JP:no problem, the agents were slacking and we were just trying to come up with something else that we can pay them to do! Thanks!

...
ha ha ha ha ...right, you just gave mgmnt another $ saving idea!

 

[redflyer65]

The rules have recently changed to were we use the higher px weights and allow carry on bags which makes the problem that much worse!

In DTW, not just dealing with Mesaba but more times than not DTW will add balast only to never see it come back.

You joke about DTW not having any, but sometimes that's the case. You might see Mesaba balast laying around, but not PCL. (they won't use XJ balast on PCL plane)

 

[j41driver]

Flying out of DTW yesterday dispatch said we needed 1800 in the cargo to get the jumpseater on. Mesaba said there was no ballast available so we had to leave the jumpseater behind. After we left the gate the dispatcher told us to return to the gate to get ballast just for our current load. Magically, Mesaba now had ballast to add to the cargo. Seems to always be a problem in DTW.

Well, did the jumpseater get on?

 

[buckwheat]

I have never left a jumpseater and never will leave a jumpseater. I have got into alot of pissing matches with the gate agents and dispache over getting a jumpseater on so my piss must be stronger. Actually to come think of it I bumped a pax to get a jumpseater on the other day. Pinnacle captains will go out of there way to get a jumpseater on. You come find me and you will never be left behind.

 

[CRJDispatchKid]

I have never left a jumpseater and never will leave a jumpseater. I have got into alot of pissing matches with the gate agents and dispache over getting a jumpseater on so my piss must be stronger. Actually to come think of it I bumped a pax to get a jumpseater on the other day. Pinnacle captains will go out of there way to get a jumpseater on. You come find me and you will never be left behind.

Terrible...

I don't think that's something to brag about...maybe that's just me.