Pinnacle is not Comair V2

[Waylon]

I will not quote word for word what this weeks message on Delta Net said but it mentioned how Pinnacle is part of Delta's long-term financial success and will positively impact all Delta employees.

 

[i fly boxes]

Comair was used as an example to those that screw with delta. They should not have but they were. I respect their pilot group. Pinnacle/mesaba are different. Ra says jump and we say how high. Even when we were in negotiations for 5 years we had record completion factors. The facts are not pretty not are they right, but pinnacle will be around for at least 7 more years. You should still get out if you can though, but that saying goes for every regional.

 

[PBRstreetgang]

The facts are not pretty not are they right, but pinnacle will be around for at least 7 more years.

Pinnacle will be around until DAL needs more pilots, then it will be shuttered and the pilots set free into the wild, free to be hired at first year pay. The regional experiment allowed the majors 20+ years of "D" scale and will now get all those pilots at newhire prices, welcome to the suck. I personally would love to see a ramp full of planes and 0 pilots willing to fly them, they will then save thousands right up until they have to pay the monthly on the planes, then we will see how much they save.
Until pilots realize how much the company needs us we will collectively continue to be cornholed.

 

[screamingpax]

Voting on this TA with regards to predicting the future of Pinnacle and Delta is foolish. They have already decided your fate regardless of the outcome. You will never be ahead or know what Delta is doing. Truth is, this TA is horrible. Not only the pay but the new language. For once, hold the line and tell Delta to **** off. We are at a turning point in the industry and pilot positions are getting harder to fill. Make it even harder for them and vote this down. This will have a resonating effect through the industry. All future regional contracts, ours (XJET) included, will use this as a base of comparison. This will also make regionals cheaper and more justifiable to the majors. Any of you who hope to have a future at the majors need to vote this thing down. Your actions will be remembered by all in the industry, how do you want to be defined. I wish you all the best, and hope you all bail that place and find new jobs. I know ASA/XJET is hiring and having trouble filling classes. You will quickly move up here compared to your stagnation and shrinking at Pinnacle. Don't be the new GoJet. Correction: don't let GoJet be the new upper standard of the industry.

 

[sinkrate]

Pinnacle will have 111 900s when this is done, not 81. Those next 30 options delta has will be placed at pinnacle as well. Pinnacle is being set up to be run by all delta management and they will be using both former nwa and comair facilities. They will be pumped up to 111 planes and if that is attractive to a buyer they will be bought, if not in 7 years they will then be the next comair at that point. If you are in the top 1500 at pinnacle you will probably be ok. They are only announcing 40 900s right now because they always have to keep it doom and gloom for as long as possible. Skywest republic and translates will be competing for American and united flying. Delta knows the regionals will be short staffed so they have solved their own problem. I am 99 percent confident all 70 900s will be at pinnacle leaving them with 111 900s

+1 Delta will probably shed some of the left over assets from CMR and NWA to PCL in the exit from BK. Rejecting the leases on the current PCL/Mesaba facilities has to happen first. Getting rid of Spanjers and company will probably need to happen too - he wont do the job. They have already started. MX is selling the mem hanger and has already moved that operation to CVG.

This isn't neccessarily a good thing. Anderson pulled a similar deal with Champion/NWA. NWA bought Champion, loaded it up with unwanted assets (727 fleet) and then spun it off. After it was off their blance sheet they torpedoed it by pulling the charter contracts they had.

In the meantime PCL will get its fourth management group (frmr CMR?) in three years. And they will want to start from scratch with all new managers (again) after they tell everyone how useless they are.

As for 30 more planes - don't count on it. For a whipsaw to work they actually have to toss the carrot to the low bidder every now and then.

Fun times ahead.

 

[Waylon]

Even with this TA we are still better off than GoJet or Republic. So why should we shut this place down and go there to a contract that is worst than this TA. Don't be mad at us be mad at the GoJet pilots.

 

[screamingpax]

Even with this TA we are still better off than GoJet or Republic. So why should we shut this place down and go there to a contract that is worst than this TA. Don't be mad at us be mad at the GoJet pilots.

Its debatable if its better then GoJets. But I now realize that's the new bar. As long as its GoJets or better, you guys are ok with it. That's the problem with this industry. What you guys do will impact everyone. Grow a pair and stand up for something. This is your profession, your career!

 

[IamGumbyDammit]

Pinnacle will have 111 900s when this is done, not 81. Those next 30 options delta has will be placed at pinnacle as well. Pinnacle is being set up to be run by all delta management and they will be using both former nwa and comair facilities. They will be pumped up to 111 planes and if that is attractive to a buyer they will be bought, if not in 7 years they will then be the next comair at that point. If you are in the top 1500 at pinnacle you will probably be ok. They are only announcing 40 900s right now because they always have to keep it doom and gloom for as long as possible. Skywest republic and translates will be competing for American and united flying. Delta knows the regionals will be short staffed so they have solved their own problem. I am 99 percent confident all 70 900s will be at pinnacle leaving them with 111 900s

111 CRJ-900s equates to nearly $4,000,000,000.00 of capital alone. The economics of turning PCL into the next CMR would be expensive.

 

[imacdog]

I will not quote word for word what this weeks message on Delta Net said but it mentioned how Pinnacle is part of Delta's long-term financial success and will positively impact all Delta employees.

Same thing can be said of Comair. Take off the blinders. Your company provides contract lift and can be replaced on a whim.

 

[mesaba13]

What language in the TA are you referring to as Terrible? I was not aware of much change to language. As I have said before, most 9E captains will still make $80000-$90000/year, get 3-4 weeks of vacation, have a min day of 4 hours, 11 days off min, junior man refusal rights, leg by leg protection, 50% 401K matching to 10%, affordable health care, etc. Most will get from $6000-$26000 as part of the bridge agreement which eases the pain some. We also buy ourselves time for an exit strategy that we will not have if wound down.

Gojets has 1-2 weeks of vacation, no rigs, min day, or cancellation pay. 10 days off for reserves, 1% 401k match(less than $1000.) I don't even want to know what our decent $380/month family health care plan costs there. So how is it that whether or not our TA is better than Gojets is debatable?

 

[Waylon]

What I will find interesting is how many guys spouting off and saying "Grow A Pair" will vote yes when there job is in jeopardy. If somebody can replace my 85K a year job with 17 days off a month and 4 weeks vacation I would consider voting no. Please PM me I will consider all options. As for now what most of us need is time to get out. A year may seem like a long time. In this job market it's not.

In closing. I DON'T CARE ABOUT WHAT'S GOING TO HAPPEN TO YOU, I ONLY CARE ABOUT MY FAMILY AND MY FELLOW PCL PILOTS. This deal is as good as it's going to get no matter what seniority you are at. Turning it down would only save Delta money, as the planes go to the lowest bidder and all the bonus money disappears.

 

[Oakum_Boy]

The TA is a joke. Get used to the idea. Ooh boy, 80-90k per year. Holy shmokes! Subtract your new 2% payroll taxes and you're rolling in the dough! Take a vacation in Myrtle Beach, heck, make it Panama City!

Your bonus money? You mean the money they're taking from your paychecks, putting into their interest-bearing account, then giving it to you with 40% tax off the top? What a sweet deal!

 

[xjhawk]

Its debatable if its better then GoJets. But I now realize that's the new bar. As long as its GoJets or better, you guys are ok with it. That's the problem with this industry. What you guys do will impact everyone. Grow a pair and stand up for something. This is your profession, your career!

Why dont you grow a pair and quit your job unless you get mainline pay or better yet, arrange for those of us with family to support to pay our mortgage. Oh and talk to ALPA who is pushing this along with Delta. The reason this has a great probability of passing is the "bridge" agreement that is a joke and yet ALPA nationals leaders are calling it an opportunity. All it is is a way to allow this TA to pass and give Delta a lot more profits which benefits mainline Delta pilots which ALPA's leader has allegiance too. The Bridge is a joke-they can change the hiring requirements and prevent any pinnacle pilot from getting a Delta job. They can cherry pick who they want. Most of us are voting yes just to give us a couple years to find something else-I would vote no on the merits of the contract, but have my family to think about-obviously ALPA is not concerned with regional pilots families. Maybe I would think differently if I were a mainline pilot getting those huge raises at regional pilots expense but I do not think so. I am not that selfish. I wish I was at a major-where ALPA actually helps. But at a regional-its just a joke

 

[mesaba13]

Good posts hawk and Waylon! Maybe all this anger is because after years of faithful service we are going to get some spots in Delta classes and that bothers some.

 

[rockit85]

lay off the kool aid man. if you believe that delta class will work out for u guys then help the company out even more by paying them to work at 9e. I mean that class spot at delta will be here soon. 2014 is right around the corner

 

[General Lee]

Pinnacle will be around until DAL needs more pilots, then it will be shuttered and the pilots set free into the wild, free to be hired at first year pay. The regional experiment allowed the majors 20+ years of "D" scale and will now get all those pilots at newhire prices, welcome to the suck. I personally would love to see a ramp full of planes and 0 pilots willing to fly them, they will then save thousands right up until they have to pay the monthly on the planes, then we will see how much they save.
Until pilots realize how much the company needs us we will collectively continue to be cornholed.

Here we go again from the SKW lifer.... First year pay at DL in 2015 will be $71 an hour, and near $100 an hour a year or two later, with 14% DC fund for retirement (12% DC and 2% your own 401K). That's 14% retirement, and you don't have to add a dime. Can the Regionals match that? Throw in hundreds of guys retiring each year starting in a few years, and QOL will be top notch too, or jumping up fleet types twice as fast as normal. But, PBR will stick it out at the Regionals, as their QOL goes down due to new fatigue rules dumping their senior trips (CDOs), and Legacies continuing to dump 50 seaters. Hiring will be huge for most Regional guys, except PBR..... Yeah, and I think most Regional guys will jump at the chance to come over...



Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[Clutch]

Here we go again from the SKW lifer.... First year pay at DL in 2015 will be $71 an hour, and near $100 an hour a year or two later, with 14% DC fund for retirement (12% DC and 2% your own 401K). That's 14% retirement, and you don't have to add a dime. Can the Regionals match that? Throw in hundreds of guys retiring each year starting in a few years, and QOL will be top notch too, or jumping up fleet types twice as fast as normal. But, PBR will stick it out at the Regionals, as their QOL goes down due to new fatigue rules dumping their senior trips (CDOs), and Legacies continuing to dump 50 seaters. Hiring will be huge for most Regional guys, except PBR..... Yeah, and I think most Regional guys will jump at the chance to come over...



Bye Bye---General Lee

I thought you said the majors will need literally thousands of pilots in the next few years. Enough to drain the regionals dry of pilots. Why would he stay?

 

[RJLoser]

Are you guys father and son?

 

[General Lee]

I thought you said the majors will need literally thousands of pilots in the next few years. Enough to drain the regionals dry of pilots. Why would he stay?

He obviously has other problems. Maybe a DUI, no college, and probably can't interview..... He knows it, too.


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[CRJ puppy]

111 CRJ-900s equates to nearly $4,000,000,000.00 of capital alone. The economics of turning PCL into the next CMR would be expensive.

Welcome to fantasy island!

 

[rtmcfi]

111 CRJ-900s equates to nearly $4,000,000,000.00 of capital alone. The economics of turning PCL into the next CMR would be expensive.

Ya, Delta could never pull these planes from one carrier and give them to another.

 

[gromgutten]

Thousands of pages have been written ever since the CRJ/ERJ came into existence, and nothing has changed!

The regional airlines are good for one thing, and one thing only: Get your jet time and get the hell out! Anything else is poor career planning.

The conditions will always be crap, and it is time we get used to it...

 

[flyboyike]

111 CRJ-900s equates to nearly $4,000,000,000.00 of capital alone. The economics of turning PCL into the next CMR would be expensive.

Well, they blew over 2 billion on Comair in just over ten years. Where there's 2 bill, I'm sure there's 4.

 

[skyguy40]

I must be missing something. The union is saying we have guaranteed positions in Delta class, I think that is like saying, your a guaranteed winner if you go to Vegas.
The way I am reading it, is a captain at Pinnacle that meats Delta's requirements has a guaranteed interview. Guarantee interview Does not equal a Guarenteed job.
So what am I missing here? If I'm right, how can our union make such a claim. I call that "Half Truths and Whole Lies".

 

[PBRstreetgang]

He obviously has other problems. Maybe a DUI, no college, and probably can't interview..... He knows it, too.


Bye Bye---General Lee

Problems, just with pimply faced, mantittied basement goobers that fantasize about being an airline pilot. While it may burst your booger fueled keyboard sessions, if you look at any of my posts, I will challenge you to find, any post that says I will stay at SKYW till retirement. You continue to post drivel that can be sourced from any number of sources online to facilitate the myth that you are an airline pilot, and almost manage to fool a few here, but the truth is evident, anyone who has 16K posts on any one board has the time to data mine the Internet to support his fantasy position.
Nice try, no DUI, 4 year degree, post grad studies in several areas and BTW I interview well enough to have gotten every position I have interviewed for in the last 25 years, 4 different jobs in different career fields.
So continue along with your Oedipal fueled rants, they are amusing and in fact quite illuminating. Open the basement door and waddle up the stairs and go outdoors and get some fresh air, it will do you wonders!

 

[General Lee]

Problems, just with pimply faced, mantittied basement goobers that fantasize about being an airline pilot. While it may burst your booger fueled keyboard sessions, if you look at any of my posts, I will challenge you to find, any post that says I will stay at SKYW till retirement. You continue to post drivel that can be sourced from any number of sources online to facilitate the myth that you are an airline pilot, and almost manage to fool a few here, but the truth is evident, anyone who has 16K posts on any one board has the time to data mine the Internet to support his fantasy position.
Nice try, no DUI, 4 year degree, post grad studies in several areas and BTW I interview well enough to have gotten every position I have interviewed for in the last 25 years, 4 different jobs in different career fields.
So continue along with your Oedipal fueled rants, they are amusing and in fact quite illuminating. Open the basement door and waddle up the stairs and go outdoors and get some fresh air, it will do you wonders!

BAAAHAAA! Whatever LOSER....


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[PBRstreetgang]

BAAAHAAA! Whatever LOSER....


Bye Bye---General Lee

Awesome retort, truth hurts huh?

 

[mesaba13]

Guaranteed spots in class mean that you still have to interview and Delta can turn an individual down but they can't turn EVERYONE down.

I was originally disappointed with this because we had the guaranteed job in the past, but if you have a clean record and ducks in a row the interview should not present a huge problem.

 

[General Lee]

Guaranteed spots in class mean that you still have to interview and Delta can turn an individual down but they can't turn EVERYONE down.

I was originally disappointed with this because we had the guaranteed job in the past, but if you have a clean record and ducks in a row the interview should not present a huge problem.

This is a good offer for everyone involved. Getting an interview is a tough anyway. If you do have a clean record, a clean logbook, and don't fall apart on questions, you should do well. It's not as good of an offer as the last flow up (no interview or medical), but it's better than nothing, and better than what the others will get. And, other legacies will be looking for pilots too. Just keep your head up and have confidence, but don't be cocky. Have a good attitude, and you'll do fine......


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[skyguy40]

I understand the points made above. However, again there is nothing saying we get a Guarenteed job. So my point is the MEC should n