Pinnacle is not Comair V2

[CRJ puppy]

What's this all about?

http://www.bizjournals.com/memphis/news/2013/01/03/agreement-gives-more-clarity-to.html

Ummm. A little late to the party are we?!

 

[BentOver]

Ahh the old "if we vote yes, all will be well" people.... The one's who think that by voting yes you will miraculously save the airline are either...

1) really really naive
2) Way to green in the industry
3) Have had their head in the sand for the past decade



If you think that Delta will suddenly change directions because you all decide to give up 2 bucks an hour and accept 50% deadhead pay.. (just guessing) your wrong..... The decisions for the future have been made with or without whatever is in the Pinnacle TA.

What Delta is successfulling doing is slowly cutting costs regional by regional.....Think long term on this one boys... There will shortly be a next regional who will be pressured into giving up pay and work rules to gain/keep flying.. A few years down the road Pinanacle goes through this again etc....

The ones who aren't able to get out, in 10 years, will be working the same job, for less money/rules, than you are now. With a higher COL.. And trust me there aren't enough Legacy jobs out there for everyone.

 

[flyboyike]

The decisions for the future have been made with or without whatever is in the Pinnacle TA.

Key statement, right there.

 

[JonnyKnoxville]

If the TA passes or not the only difference will be that the top 400 Captains keep their place. Either way the aircraft will slowly go away until there is 81 or zero. There is no way Delta can or would just shut the doors.

So if the TA doesn't pass, then yes, this is Comair all over again. Over the course of the next 3 years every one will lose their jobs.

If the TA passes all but the top 800 pilots get cut, half of them get down graded. They are at the top of the respective pay scales, and will never hire again. Their costs will be too high, and it will be just like Comair all over again.

Simple enough to understand?

Exactly! The level of denial on this topic baffles me. For the smart ones at Pinnacle, good luck with your job search.

 

[WMUSIGPI]

Ahh the old "if we vote yes, all will be well" people.... The one's who think that by voting yes you will miraculously save the airline are either...

1) really really naive
2) Way to green in the industry
3) Have had their head in the sand for the past decade



If you think that Delta will suddenly change directions because you all decide to give up 2 bucks an hour and accept 50% deadhead pay.. (just guessing) your wrong..... The decisions for the future have been made with or without whatever is in the Pinnacle TA.

What Delta is successfulling doing is slowly cutting costs regional by regional.....Think long term on this one boys... There will shortly be a next regional who will be pressured into giving up pay and work rules to gain/keep flying.. A few years down the road Pinanacle goes through this again etc....

The ones who aren't able to get out, in 10 years, will be working the same job, for less money/rules, than you are now. With a higher COL.. And trust me there aren't enough Legacy jobs out there for everyone.

It's much worse than that. Try going from $75k to $33k a year... oh and topped out with no raise for 2 years then 1% after that, plus per diem frozen at $1.70 for good. Much more but that's just a highlight.

 

[wms]

This goes way beyond the company as an airline. RA and menke are manipulating the stock, driving it down now, then selling after they announce the plan to save it and the price spikes. Then when dal does buy pncl they will pay a premium to shareholders (themselves included) and double-dip on their investment.

 

[wmuflyguy]

This goes way beyond the company as an airline. RA and menke are manipulating the stock, driving it down now, then selling after they announce the plan to save it and the price spikes. Then when dal does buy pncl they will pay a premium to shareholders (themselves included) and double-dip on their investment.

Stock gets reissued after a company emerges from BK. The current stock will be/already is essentially worthless.

 

[i fly boxes]

Pinnacle will have 111 900s when this is done, not 81. Those next 30 options delta has will be placed at pinnacle as well. Pinnacle is being set up to be run by all delta management and they will be using both former nwa and comair facilities. They will be pumped up to 111 planes and if that is attractive to a buyer they will be bought, if not in 7 years they will then be the next comair at that point. If you are in the top 1500 at pinnacle you will probably be ok. They are only announcing 40 900s right now because they always have to keep it doom and gloom for as long as possible. Skywest republic and translates will be competing for American and united flying. Delta knows the regionals will be short staffed so they have solved their own problem. I am 99 percent confident all 70 900s will be at pinnacle leaving them with 111 900s

 

[rtmcfi]

This is painful to watch. This is exactly like Comair. The desperation oozing from some of these posts is awful. Good luck,and for gods sake, get out of that company. That ship is sinking.

 

[rumrnr78]

180+ airframes equate to how many flights per day? I dont know the answer, but if Pinnacle ceases, how much backfill could all the operators of Delta Airlines handle? A little, but there would be mass cancellations, stranded passengers, hotel rooms, delta dollars, lawsuits, and the brand would experience a massive blow. Yes they would recover, but it would be awhile. Comairs strike cost Delta 200 million+.... That was planned meaning delta knew it was coming, imagine if 182 airframes vanished today....

Comair strike is why DCI is deployed the way it is throughout the country. Are you delusional? Remember this, a lift provider is a job, not a carrier. I respect the job but just telling it like it is.

 

[Waylon]

I will not quote word for word what this weeks message on Delta Net said but it mentioned how Pinnacle is part of Delta's long-term financial success and will positively impact all Delta employees.

 

[i fly boxes]

Comair was used as an example to those that screw with delta. They should not have but they were. I respect their pilot group. Pinnacle/mesaba are different. Ra says jump and we say how high. Even when we were in negotiations for 5 years we had record completion factors. The facts are not pretty not are they right, but pinnacle will be around for at least 7 more years. You should still get out if you can though, but that saying goes for every regional.

 

[PBRstreetgang]

The facts are not pretty not are they right, but pinnacle will be around for at least 7 more years.

Pinnacle will be around until DAL needs more pilots, then it will be shuttered and the pilots set free into the wild, free to be hired at first year pay. The regional experiment allowed the majors 20+ years of "D" scale and will now get all those pilots at newhire prices, welcome to the suck. I personally would love to see a ramp full of planes and 0 pilots willing to fly them, they will then save thousands right up until they have to pay the monthly on the planes, then we will see how much they save.
Until pilots realize how much the company needs us we will collectively continue to be cornholed.

 

[screamingpax]

Voting on this TA with regards to predicting the future of Pinnacle and Delta is foolish. They have already decided your fate regardless of the outcome. You will never be ahead or know what Delta is doing. Truth is, this TA is horrible. Not only the pay but the new language. For once, hold the line and tell Delta to **** off. We are at a turning point in the industry and pilot positions are getting harder to fill. Make it even harder for them and vote this down. This will have a resonating effect through the industry. All future regional contracts, ours (XJET) included, will use this as a base of comparison. This will also make regionals cheaper and more justifiable to the majors. Any of you who hope to have a future at the majors need to vote this thing down. Your actions will be remembered by all in the industry, how do you want to be defined. I wish you all the best, and hope you all bail that place and find new jobs. I know ASA/XJET is hiring and having trouble filling classes. You will quickly move up here compared to your stagnation and shrinking at Pinnacle. Don't be the new GoJet. Correction: don't let GoJet be the new upper standard of the industry.

 

[sinkrate]

Pinnacle will have 111 900s when this is done, not 81. Those next 30 options delta has will be placed at pinnacle as well. Pinnacle is being set up to be run by all delta management and they will be using both former nwa and comair facilities. They will be pumped up to 111 planes and if that is attractive to a buyer they will be bought, if not in 7 years they will then be the next comair at that point. If you are in the top 1500 at pinnacle you will probably be ok. They are only announcing 40 900s right now because they always have to keep it doom and gloom for as long as possible. Skywest republic and translates will be competing for American and united flying. Delta knows the regionals will be short staffed so they have solved their own problem. I am 99 percent confident all 70 900s will be at pinnacle leaving them with 111 900s

+1 Delta will probably shed some of the left over assets from CMR and NWA to PCL in the exit from BK. Rejecting the leases on the current PCL/Mesaba facilities has to happen first. Getting rid of Spanjers and company will probably need to happen too - he wont do the job. They have already started. MX is selling the mem hanger and has already moved that operation to CVG.

This isn't neccessarily a good thing. Anderson pulled a similar deal with Champion/NWA. NWA bought Champion, loaded it up with unwanted assets (727 fleet) and then spun it off. After it was off their blance sheet they torpedoed it by pulling the charter contracts they had.

In the meantime PCL will get its fourth management group (frmr CMR?) in three years. And they will want to start from scratch with all new managers (again) after they tell everyone how useless they are.

As for 30 more planes - don't count on it. For a whipsaw to work they actually have to toss the carrot to the low bidder every now and then.

Fun times ahead.

 

[Waylon]

Even with this TA we are still better off than GoJet or Republic. So why should we shut this place down and go there to a contract that is worst than this TA. Don't be mad at us be mad at the GoJet pilots.

 

[screamingpax]

Even with this TA we are still better off than GoJet or Republic. So why should we shut this place down and go there to a contract that is worst than this TA. Don't be mad at us be mad at the GoJet pilots.

Its debatable if its better then GoJets. But I now realize that's the new bar. As long as its GoJets or better, you guys are ok with it. That's the problem with this industry. What you guys do will impact everyone. Grow a pair and stand up for something. This is your profession, your career!

 

[IamGumbyDammit]

Pinnacle will have 111 900s when this is done, not 81. Those next 30 options delta has will be placed at pinnacle as well. Pinnacle is being set up to be run by all delta management and they will be using both former nwa and comair facilities. They will be pumped up to 111 planes and if that is attractive to a buyer they will be bought, if not in 7 years they will then be the next comair at that point. If you are in the top 1500 at pinnacle you will probably be ok. They are only announcing 40 900s right now because they always have to keep it doom and gloom for as long as possible. Skywest republic and translates will be competing for American and united flying. Delta knows the regionals will be short staffed so they have solved their own problem. I am 99 percent confident all 70 900s will be at pinnacle leaving them with 111 900s

111 CRJ-900s equates to nearly $4,000,000,000.00 of capital alone. The economics of turning PCL into the next CMR would be expensive.

 

[imacdog]

I will not quote word for word what this weeks message on Delta Net said but it mentioned how Pinnacle is part of Delta's long-term financial success and will positively impact all Delta employees.

Same thing can be said of Comair. Take off the blinders. Your company provides contract lift and can be replaced on a whim.

 

[mesaba13]

What language in the TA are you referring to as Terrible? I was not aware of much change to language. As I have said before, most 9E captains will still make $80000-$90000/year, get 3-4 weeks of vacation, have a min day of 4 hours, 11 days off min, junior man refusal rights, leg by leg protection, 50% 401K matching to 10%, affordable health care, etc. Most will get from $6000-$26000 as part of the bridge agreement which eases the pain some. We also buy ourselves time for an exit strategy that we will not have if wound down.

Gojets has 1-2 weeks of vacation, no rigs, min day, or cancellation pay. 10 days off for reserves, 1% 401k match(less than $1000.) I don't even want to know what our decent $380/month family health care plan costs there. So how is it that whether or not our TA is better than Gojets is debatable?