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Pinnacle is in deep, holy cow

pilotyip

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Seems after ALPO signs off on these cuts, you guys would be looking to dump them and save the dues money for the 88 civic payments.
Private unions can not overcome the economic forces of the marketplace, that is the ultimate consumer of the product. It is all about profit and what is wrong with profit, without profit a company has no access to capital; without capital there is no growth, no more jobs. Without profit the company will eventually implode.
 

SplitBar

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I believe NWA took alot of Mesaba guys. Especially in the late 90's and early 2000's.Those classes were about half mesaba guys.

That is not how I remember it. I can only think of about 20 XJ pilots who got on with NWA during the 1998-2001 hiring boom.
 

titans10

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alot
In my class they were 5 of the 10. I guess mine was the exception then. Also in the classes around mine there where atleast 3 to4 in each.
 

PeanuckleCRJ

Hurrrrrrrr
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mucho
DL has hired quite a few pinnacle guys (me being one of them). Just because the airline can't complete a flight for the life of them doesn't mean its the pilots' fault.
 

joepilot29

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As a soon to on the street OH pilot I have a confession. When Delta moved us from JFK to DTW I had alot of resentment towards 9E. We as the JFK pilot group felt cheated out of something we thought we had turned around. I had been based there for over 3 years and it seemed like we finally had JFK broken in! Talk to any former JFK based OH crew and we all miss it and hate DTW with a passion!

I have been based in DTW for 2 years and it has been the worst 2 years of my life! Being based in DTW was like culture shock! That place is so poorly operated! Why do I have to talk to 3 different ground control frequency's just to get to the darn runway! I miss the days of landing at JFK and taxiing to the gate without talking to a sole other then ramp! Why can't I shoot a visual without being given a f@@king heading in DTW? Kinda defeats the point!

Anyway after working around you guys in DTW and riding in your jumpseat on a regular basis to get home, I have learned you guys are no different then we are. Taken awhile for me to figure that out. Sorry if we were jerks when we first got up there. You have to understand what we had! Been a big mess since the merger. We have become yet another victim of the new kid on the block whose headquarters is in St Louis! No one can compete with them!

I wish you guys the best of luck! I fear you guys will suffer a similar fate that we are suffering! To be honest I can't wait til the end of next month. All we do is cover flights for that certain carrier out of St. Louis that is getting all our 700's. I hear that place is a train wreck from guys that have delivered airplanes to them. They can't even get the paperwork right to take our planes! Being a sub contractor for Delta really sucks!

Good Luck!
 

bri5150

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As a soon to on the street OH pilot I have a confession. When Delta moved us from JFK to DTW I had alot of resentment towards 9E. We as the JFK pilot group felt cheated out of something we thought we had turned around. I had been based there for over 3 years and it seemed like we finally had JFK broken in! Talk to any former JFK based OH crew and we all miss it and hate DTW with a passion!

I have been based in DTW for 2 years and it has been the worst 2 years of my life! Being based in DTW was like culture shock! That place is so poorly operated! Why do I have to talk to 3 different ground control frequency's just to get to the darn runway! I miss the days of landing at JFK and taxiing to the gate without talking to a sole other then ramp! Why can't I shoot a visual without being given a f@@king heading in DTW? Kinda defeats the point!

Anyway after working around you guys in DTW and riding in your jumpseat on a regular basis to get home, I have learned you guys are no different then we are. Taken awhile for me to figure that out. Sorry if we were jerks when we first got up there. You have to understand what we had! Been a big mess since the merger. We have become yet another victim of the new kid on the block whose headquarters is in St Louis! No one can compete with them!

I wish you guys the best of luck! I fear you guys will suffer a similar fate that we are suffering! To be honest I can't wait til the end of next month. All we do is cover flights for that certain carrier out of St. Louis that is getting all our 700's. I hear that place is a train wreck from guys that have delivered airplanes to them. They can't even get the paperwork right to take our planes! Being a sub contractor for Delta really sucks!

Good Luck!

And good luck to you good sir! :)
 

labbats

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Private unions can not overcome the economic forces of the marketplace, that is the ultimate consumer of the product. It is all about profit and what is wrong with profit, without profit a company has no access to capital; without capital there is no growth, no more jobs. Without profit the company will eventually implode.

Much like at Zantop correct?
 

pilotyip

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Much like at Zantop correct?
Yes, with an accelerator added in the name of lost productivity that comes with a union contract. The contact came with more days off, the cost of air-lining crews to and from airplane locations. Combined with a rich owner at a privately held company who probably went, "Why bother". Boy I loved flying the Electra.
 
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gojo

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HAHAHAHA!!!! Thanks for the good laugh this morning. Needing that.

One thing I kept hearing from Pinnacle pilots was "our 200's are safe until 2017 Now look at them. Delta can find a way to bully ANY regional that flies for them, and get what they want. Never think you're company is safe. Especially when dealing with Delta
 

Leroy Smith

The Masochist
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Jan 22, 2006
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runout
Never think you're company is safe. Especially when dealing with Delta


But..... its built on a foundation of honesty, integrity and mutual respect......


This is not a career.
This is a succession of generally good jobs that, if you are lucky, gets cobbled together into a career.
Be smart and plan accordingly.
 

profit

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Yes, with an accelerator added in the name of lost productivity that comes with a union contract. The contact came with more days off, the cost of air-lining crews to and from airplane locations. Combined with a rich owner at a privately held company who probably went, "Why bother". Boy I loved flying the Electra.

That's actually not true at all. The original Zantop brothers had a good thriving business. The descendants completely bungled the operation. They were unable to create a sustainable business. Plus they got ripped off by the middlemen who ran that 2nd day air Roadway contract out of Terra Haute.

The pilot contract wasn't some huge raise or change to previous practice. Attempting to put blame there is a complete revision of history.
 

pilotyip

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That's actually not true at all. The original Zantop brothers had a good thriving business. The descendants completely bungled the operation. They were unable to create a sustainable business. Plus they got ripped off by the middlemen who ran that 2nd day air Roadway contract out of Terra Haute.

The pilot contract wasn't some huge raise or change to previous practice. Attempting to put blame there is a complete revision of history.
You might very well be correct, Jimmy was not Dwayne, Zipper could have easily become something like Atlas. Zantop had Op Specs to operate in every county on the planet. But don't you think that it is more than coincidental that Jimmy elected to make 3-25-97 the last day of work for all union members? But management pilots stayed on and kept the certificate active so he could renegotiate with IBT for a more favorable contract to include pay cuts, reduced days off, etc. Such a great contract that a DA-20 Captain at non-union JUS made more than a L-188 at the IBT represented Zantop. That is why when the IBT attempted to organize JUS, not one former Zipper guy voted for them.

BTW: I could care less if you are in a union or not that is an American freedom to be exercised freely. But there are two sides to ever issue. Unions are limited in what they can deliver. One thing they can not deliver is job security.
 
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profit

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You might very well be correct, Jimmy was not Dwayne, Zipper could have easily become something like Atlas. Zantop had Op Specs to operate in every county on the planet. But don't you think that it is more than coincidental that Jimmy elected to make 3-25-97 the last day of work for all union members? But management pilots stayed on and kept the certificate active so he could renegotiate with IBT for a more favorable contract to include pay cuts, reduced days off, etc. Such a great contract that a DA-20 Captain at non-union JUS made more than a L-188 at the IBT represented Zantop. That is why when the IBT attempted to organize JUS, not one former Zipper guy voted for them.

BTW: I could care less if you are in a union or not that is an American freedom to be exercised freely. But there are two sides to ever issue. Unions are limited in what they can deliver. One thing they can not deliver is job security.

Renegotiation did nothing though. Once the big bust occurred in 97, it was pretty much all over for the company. A few more years of limping along was just pride. Ultimately though, the union didn't make a bit of difference, so I take exception to your original comment about it being the cause or correlation of its demise.

Certainly unions can overreach and screw things up. And companies can blow it too. It is a mistake for either political bent to blame the other as a blanket statement, it really does depend on the individual circumstance.

In the end, it has to be a reasonable balance between labor and business, or it doesn't really work.
 

Smarta$$

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You might very well be correct, Jimmy was not Dwayne, Zipper could have easily become something like Atlas. Zantop had Op Specs to operate in every county on the planet. But don't you think that it is more than coincidental that Jimmy elected to make 3-25-97 the last day of work for all union members? But management pilots stayed on and kept the certificate active so he could renegotiate with IBT for a more favorable contract to include pay cuts, reduced days off, etc. Such a great contract that a DA-20 Captain at non-union JUS made more than a L-188 at the IBT represented Zantop. That is why when the IBT attempted to organize JUS, not one former Zipper guy voted for them.

BTW: I could care less if you are in a union or not that is an American freedom to be exercised freely. But there are two sides to ever issue. Unions are limited in what they can deliver. One thing they can not deliver is job security.

That is hilarious coming from you. Tell me, why do you always give credibility to only ONE side then?
 

pilotyip

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That is hilarious coming from you. Tell me, why do you always give credibility to only ONE side then?
Somebody has to do it, over wise this is a completely one sided thread, of unions can do no wrong and all management sucks. There are two sides, just like voting Dem or GOP, I happen to think anyone voting Dem is making a bad choice, but I defend their freedom to chose as they desire.

Certainly unions can overreach and screw things up. And companies can blow it too. It is a mistake for either political bent to blame the other as a blanket statement, it really does depend on the individual circumstance.In the end, it has to be a reasonable balance between labor and business, or it doesn't really work.

Could not agree more
 
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DoinTime

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Somebody has to do it, over wise this is a completely one sided thread, of unions can do no wrong and all management sucks. There are two sides, just like voting Dem or GOP, I happen to think anyone voting Dem is making a bad choice, but I defend their freedom to chose as they desire.

If you are voting down party lines regardless of the individuals who happen to be carrying the torch for that party at any given moment you have your head completely up your a**. You are what is wrong with American politics.
 

pilotyip

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If you are voting down party lines regardless of the individuals who happen to be carrying the torch for that party at any given moment you have your head completely up your a**. You are what is wrong with American politics.
Goes back to 1964, first year I got vote, LBJ says a win for Goldwater will get us into a war, young men of draft age don't like wars. So I vote for LBJ, a year later I am on my way to Vietnam. I have voted for one dem since then, and that is because the GOP rep was anti-Willow Run Airport Expansion. I was expressing my freedom, just as everyone else should.

BTW The expansion of Navy flight training in 1965 was one of the best thing that ever happened in my life
 

Theoden

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Somebody has to do it, over wise this is a completely one sided thread, of unions can do no wrong and all management sucks. There are two sides, just like voting Dem or GOP, I happen to think anyone voting Dem is making a bad choice, but I defend their freedom to chose as they desire.



Could not agree more

The Republicans are corporatist, whereas the Democrats are corporatist. I choose liberty, not either of these crummy parties that do not stand for what their supporters stand.


On topic, Pinnacle says their consulting firm has narrowed down the HQ location to MSP and MEM... If we have an HQ...
 
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