Pinnacle is in deep, holy cow

[pilotyip]

That is hilarious coming from you. Tell me, why do you always give credibility to only ONE side then?

Somebody has to do it, over wise this is a completely one sided thread, of unions can do no wrong and all management sucks. There are two sides, just like voting Dem or GOP, I happen to think anyone voting Dem is making a bad choice, but I defend their freedom to chose as they desire.

Certainly unions can overreach and screw things up. And companies can blow it too. It is a mistake for either political bent to blame the other as a blanket statement, it really does depend on the individual circumstance.In the end, it has to be a reasonable balance between labor and business, or it doesn't really work.

Could not agree more

 

[DoinTime]

Somebody has to do it, over wise this is a completely one sided thread, of unions can do no wrong and all management sucks. There are two sides, just like voting Dem or GOP, I happen to think anyone voting Dem is making a bad choice, but I defend their freedom to chose as they desire.

If you are voting down party lines regardless of the individuals who happen to be carrying the torch for that party at any given moment you have your head completely up your a**. You are what is wrong with American politics.

 

[pilotyip]

If you are voting down party lines regardless of the individuals who happen to be carrying the torch for that party at any given moment you have your head completely up your a**. You are what is wrong with American politics.

Goes back to 1964, first year I got vote, LBJ says a win for Goldwater will get us into a war, young men of draft age don't like wars. So I vote for LBJ, a year later I am on my way to Vietnam. I have voted for one dem since then, and that is because the GOP rep was anti-Willow Run Airport Expansion. I was expressing my freedom, just as everyone else should.

BTW The expansion of Navy flight training in 1965 was one of the best thing that ever happened in my life

 

[Theoden]

Somebody has to do it, over wise this is a completely one sided thread, of unions can do no wrong and all management sucks. There are two sides, just like voting Dem or GOP, I happen to think anyone voting Dem is making a bad choice, but I defend their freedom to chose as they desire.



Could not agree more

The Republicans are corporatist, whereas the Democrats are corporatist. I choose liberty, not either of these crummy parties that do not stand for what their supporters stand.


On topic, Pinnacle says their consulting firm has narrowed down the HQ location to MSP and MEM... If we have an HQ...

 

[DoinTime]

I was expressing my freedom, just as everyone else should.

Your freedom to do what? Be an idiot?

 

[pilotyip]

Your freedom to do what? Be an idiot?

Yes if that is my chosing and it causes no harm to anyone else. That is the greatness of this country and one of the reasons I served.

 

[fam62c]

We can only hope that at some point as retirements pick up and hiring gets going companies like this will see their pilots bail out in large numbers and will not be able to replace them. A shortage of pilots willing to work for what the bad employers offer may be the one thing that will finally shut these operations down. I hope I get to see the day when pilots are a valuable commodity because there are not enough of them.

Good luck to all of you, the idea of further concessions from the already low compensation at these carriers is unbelievable, it makes me sick that the courts can impose this and prevent the union from taking any action. Quitting is the only real option I guess. One of these days the big carriers are going to pay for moving all this flying to small airlines when they end up with a bunch of small jets and no pilots to fly them......that day can't come soon enough.

 

[WMUSIGPI]

How did this thread get hijacked into a Zantop argument. Haven't they been shut down for several years now?

 

[pilotyip]

How did this thread get hijacked into a Zantop argument. Haven't they been shut down for several years now?

Yes, they have been gone since May 2005, but the Zantop example was addressing that unions can do no harm, and unions can do have nothing to ensure job security.

 

[Twisted Mind]

Yip,
A lot of the time I agree with what you say. However, in the case of Pinnacle I don't think you can argue supply and demand. I think there are too many external forces working. For example Delta made Pinnacle sign a money losing contract. Bankruptcy court alows the company to impose work rules on union employees. Let us not forget the existance of the union, even in its castrated RLA form.

 

[pilotyip]

Yip,
A lot of the time I agree with what you say. However, in the case of Pinnacle I don't think you can argue supply and demand. I think there are too many external forces working. For example Delta made Pinnacle sign a money losing contract. Bankruptcy court alows the company to impose work rules on union employees. Let us not forget the existance of the union, even in its castrated RLA form.

I think this is a case of tread drift, and it drifted into a union debate at some point. It started with a comment about what a union could do in this case or not. This is an economic issue about the death of the 50 seat RJ model, much like a terminal disease, all you can do is plan for the end. All part of a market redefining itself, much like how horseshoe makers adopted to the introduction of the car.

 

[BHopper88]

Yip,
A lot of the time I agree with what you say. However, in the case of Pinnacle I don't think you can argue supply and demand. I think there are too many external forces working. For example Delta made Pinnacle sign a money losing contract. Bankruptcy court alows the company to impose work rules on union employees. Let us not forget the existance of the union, even in its castrated RLA form.

How did Delta MAKE pinnacle sign a money losing contract? Pinnacle bid too low for the ATL CR9 flying expecting to sign a bigger paying contract later, they took the loan to buy Mesaba, they agreed to the "best in industry" pilot contract, bought Colgan and had a very low paying contract (hope they could do better when contract was renewed) with united. While still dealing with the Colgan Buffalo crash. Delta only started to influence decisions after their largest feed operator couldnt find any financing from anyone.

 

[Twisted Mind]

And Delta loaned Pinnacle 75 m with the conditions of signing a new money losing contract.

 

[www.]

XJT is guaranteed replacement aircraft when the 145's are parked per our CPA with United. I'm not saying that we are bulletproof by any means, but there are some protections built into our CPA.

Best of luck to you guys. Hopefully there will be greener pastures for all of us sooner or later.

And as you will learn CPAs can be changed with the stroke of a pen without you knowing it.