Pinnacle conference call

[Yodafly]

I just read the fence award. My understanding is that :

Colgan pilots cant be awarded or displaced into the 900 unless Quota for Mesaba and pinnacle are kept.

Pinnacle pilots keep the ratio for future open positions and will not reduce ratio for lost airplanes. But cannot be awarded or displaced into Mesabas current 900 positions unless they keep 279 positions

 

[DoinTime]

I just read the fence award. My understanding is that :

Colgan pilots cant be awarded or displaced into the 900 unless Quota for Mesaba and pinnacle are kept.

Pinnacle pilots keep the ratio for future open positions and will not reduce ratio for lost airplanes. But cannot be awarded or displaced into Mesabas current 900 positions unless they keep 279 positions

I don't think so. Here is the applicable paragraph:

"For a period of five years beginning with submission of the integrated seniority list, no pre-merger Pinnacle or Colgan pilot may be awarded or displaced to a CRJ-900 captain position unless Mesaba pilots maintain 279 CRJ-900 captain positions, and no pre-merger Mesaba or Colgan pilot may be awarded or displaced to a CRJ-900 captain position unless Pinnacle pilots maintain 95 CRJ-900 captain positions. In the event both Mesaba and Pinnacle pilots have less than 279 and 95 CRJ-900 captain positions, respectively, CRJ-900 captain positions shall be awarded on a ratio of 279 Mesaba pilots to 95 Pinnacle pilots until either Mesaba or Pinnacle reaches their minimum. Remaining vacant positions will be awarded in accordance with system seniority."

Lets say staffing in the -900 CA seat falls to 240 pilots (from the Bloch award's 374 pilots). Applying the ratio of 2.94:1 (XJ v. 9E, respectively) after the removal of the 16 9E -900s would yield something like this for quotas if my math is right:

XJ -900 CAs - 179
9E -900 CAs - 61

 

[N813CA]

Sounds a lot like what Comair went through many years ago in the BK at Delta. I hope you all the best...

 

[flyboyike]

...we do need to give relief on integrating the senority lists.

Why do you NEED to give relief? I hear a similar sentiment from some guys at my airline also, and I really don't get it. My job is to fly that airplane safely and get the passengers where they need to go in one piece. That's it. The company's business model is not my job, therefore, it's not my job to subsidize a failed (or failing) business model. Life is not getting cheaper, why should my services get cheaper?

I would really appreciate if someone could explain to me why we, as pilots, keep believing that we "need" to save airlines and do all these other miracles. Is it arrogance? Is it our belief that the world begins and ends with us? There is far more to an airline than just its pilot group and their contract. No amount of concessions will save you from incompetent (or ill-meaning or both) management.

 

[jynxyjericho]

Why do you NEED to give relief? I hear a similar sentiment from some guys at my airline also, and I really don't get it. My job is to fly that airplane safely and get the passengers where they need to go in one piece. That's it. The company's business model is not my job, therefore, it's not my job to subsidize a failed (or failing) business model. Life is not getting cheaper, why should my services get cheaper?

I would really appreciate if someone could explain to me why we, as pilots, keep believing that we "need" to save airlines and do all these other miracles. Is it arrogance? Is it our belief that the world begins and ends with us? There is far more to an airline than just its pilot group and their contract. No amount of concessions will save you from incompetent (or ill-meaning or both) management.

Some pilots believe if they can just give the company one more break on their obligation to our contract, then management will really start to love us. Akin to the abused wife syndrome.
"He cried last time, that proves there's really a loving man underneath there!"

 

[flyboyike]

Some pilots believe if they can just give the company one more break on their obligation to our contract, then management will really start to love us. Akin to the abused wife syndrome.
"He cried last time, that proves there's really a loving man underneath there!"

They may well start to love us, but that won't save the company if the overall business model is unsustainable.

 

[jynxyjericho]

They may well start to love us, but that won't save the company if the overall business model is unsustainable.

They don't love anyone but money.

 

[xjhawk]

I think the Block award, specifically the fences will save the company money in the short term as they will not have to train those senior Q captains into any jet captain position. that being said, I think if those Q pilots want a FO position in one of the jet bases they can take them. Which will mean increased training for the company.

I also think that ALPA will throw all its resources into protecting against a company from circumventing an ALPA seniority list and since the BLOCK AWARD WAS AND IS A FUNCTION OF ALPA AND ITS POLICIES ALPA WILL fight for the block award. Any precedent set by furloughing out of seniority order will have dire consequences in the future for all of us. Imagine if they decide they want to lose the MEM base? Oh, looks like all the MEM pilots will be furloughed. That will not happen.

my next issue is this-Just before this all happened Pinnacle could not get 1/2 of their new hires to show up for class because they would rather go to a good company that treated them better, paid better, had better bases.......the list goes on. If we lose pay and work rules in bankruptcy and eventually need to hire pilots-even 5 years from now. How will they get people to even apply?

 

[xjhawk]

I don't think so. Here is the applicable paragraph:

"For a period of five years beginning with submission of the integrated seniority list, no pre-merger Pinnacle or Colgan pilot may be awarded or displaced to a CRJ-900 captain position unless Mesaba pilots maintain 279 CRJ-900 captain positions, and no pre-merger Mesaba or Colgan pilot may be awarded or displaced to a CRJ-900 captain position unless Pinnacle pilots maintain 95 CRJ-900 captain positions. In the event both Mesaba and Pinnacle pilots have less than 279 and 95 CRJ-900 captain positions, respectively, CRJ-900 captain positions shall be awarded on a ratio of 279 Mesaba pilots to 95 Pinnacle pilots until either Mesaba or Pinnacle reaches their minimum. Remaining vacant positions will be awarded in accordance with system seniority."

Lets say staffing in the -900 CA seat falls to 240 pilots (from the Bloch award's 374 pilots). Applying the ratio of 2.94:1 (XJ v. 9E, respectively) after the removal of the 16 9E -900s would yield something like this for quotas if my math is right:

XJ -900 CAs - 179
9E -900 CAs - 61

No I think since it says both....key word is both. Mesaba is not losing any 900 positions so Mesaba will still be at 279. That being said, i do not think like an attorney. Ask Jane. Oh and is there similar language for the 200? Yes I am expecting Pinnacle to park some of those as well.

 

[DoinTime]

my next issue is this-Just before this all happened Pinnacle could not get 1/2 of their new hires to show up for class because they would rather go to a good company that treated them better, paid better, had better bases.......the list goes on. If we lose pay and work rules in bankruptcy and eventually need to hire pilots-even 5 years from now. How will they get people to even apply?

If "just before" means 2007, you'd be correct on the new hires.

 

[DTWFO]

my next issue is this-Just before this all happened Pinnacle could not get 1/2 of their new hires to show up for class because they would rather go to a good company that treated them better, paid better, had better bases.......the list goes on. If we lose pay and work rules in bankruptcy and eventually need to hire pilots-even 5 years from now. How will they get people to even apply?

There won't be any hiring here anymore period... because this place won't be around in 5 years!!

 

[jynxyjericho]

There won't be any hiring here anymore period... because this place won't be around in 5 years!!

Hehe, I was thinking the same. We'll see hu?