Pinnacle and Class Envy

[pilotyip]

While I do have a college degree, I think overall most of them are not really worth the expenditure other than as a "work permit"....Google the phrase "college debt bubble" to see what is in store for us next.

You are the man; you get the big picture. The college degree by itself means nothing. Anyone can get one, pay your fee get your B. Now a degree from a top notch school, it a subject matter that leads to a good job, that is something different and something many people would have trouble achieving. As advice I gave to a young man some years back, after his first year of college he was accepted into the Army's WO flying program. He asked me should he stay and finish college or take the flight training. I told him you do college any time, but an opportunity to fly in the military is hard to come by, go for it and never look back. Basically few people get accepted to military flight programs, everyone can get into a college somewhere.

 

[Flyer1015]

Ok, I agree with what you are all saying. The debt thing is totally out of control on college student loans. If anything, these days, people aren't finding a job with their college degrees, or are told that a masters is necessary before they can really be employable in their field. It's a money sucking proposition that preys on students and others hopeful to make a good living. Now I don't have a problem with that "system" as long as there are jobs to be had, amd people are able to pay of your school debt and make good money down the road. Today, that's no longer true. I chose a professional degree (engineering) and got some work experience in that so I think it should be a good backup. However, I can name plenty of engineers (or laywers) who are sitting unemployed or under-employed.


So, today in 2012, is it really worth it? By looking at employable statistics, the answer would lean towards 'no.'

 

[JustaNumber]

So, today in 2012, is it [a college education] really worth it? By looking at employable statistics, the answer would lean towards 'no.'

"lean" is not the right word.

Let's look at the statistics. Only 40% of people who enter college will graduate within 6 years. But assuming you're one of the diligent, only 56% of graduates will find ANY kind of work within a year. And 50% of those jobs did not require a college degree to begin with. So overall the math says you have approximately a 15% chance of college being worth it, 25% if you do everything right. Or put another way, there is a 75-85% chance that the money spent on college will be flushed down the drain.

The reason for this situation (that affects all pilots) is a subject that will marginalize you if you talk about it, but I'll risk my post and this thread being deleted anyway. The whole cause is that there is a literally unlimited supply of borrowed and printed money being indiscriminately thrown at education, causing almost everyone to attempt college, yet there is actually a shrinking supply of jobs in the U.S. The reason for the shrinking supply of jobs has to do with the unsustainably high value of the dollar compared to the other world currencies, making Chinese workers much more in demand than American workers. The reason for the unreasonably high value of the dollar has to do with the fact that all world oil sales are required to be transacted in dollars (by explicit political agreements), necessarily creating artificial worldwide demand for dollars. This is also the reason the U.S. can get away with the unlimited money printing that fuels the college debt bubble.

These economic and political forces are what everyone really should be studying, because they affect us more than most people imagine.

 

[pilotyip]

All these lead to the question "Why pursue a 4yr degree in Aviation Technology?" and build up $100K in debt. Going to a 4 yr. college out of high school is not the only way to get your degree. The degree is not needed until the final step for the vaulted interview at DAL, FedEx, and Alaska. Go to school part time, cheap community college, get a job start building time, do on line courses, or even find an employer who has tuition assistance. Remember you are not doing this to learn much, you are doing it to check a box on the final step.

This following example in the model of success in pursing flying job. We hired a 20 year old pilot a few years ago, 1 year of on-line college credit completed, started working the ramp pumping gas in high school, got hired hauling cargo in SA-227 as an F/O, at 18, got promoted to 208 Capt. at age 20, he has 1600 TT, 1100 MEL, 350 Turbine PIC, 1450 total turbine, he is started as a DA-20 F/O at $33K, he was a DA-20 Capt. the day he turned 23, he had his degree completed by the time he was 26 years old. At that time he should had 5200 TT, 4700 MEL, 5050 Turbine, 3200 hours 121 time, 1200 121 Turbo Jet PIC. He had his on-line BS degree in Aviation Management that our company helped pay for through the tuition assistance program, and no debt.

He was just hired at a Fortune 5 company as a Corp pilot.

 

[Full of LUV]

"lean" is not the right word.

Let's look at the statistics. Only 40% of people who enter college will graduate within 6 years. But assuming you're one of the diligent, only 56% of graduates will find ANY kind of work within a year. And 50% of those jobs did not require a college degree to begin with. So overall the math says you have approximately a 15% chance of college being worth it, 25% if you do everything right. Or put another way, there is a 75-85% chance that the money spent on college will be flushed down the drain.

The reason for this situation (that affects all pilots) is a subject that will marginalize you if you talk about it, but I'll risk my post and this thread being deleted anyway. The whole cause is that there is a literally unlimited supply of borrowed and printed money being indiscriminately thrown at education, causing almost everyone to attempt college, yet there is actually a shrinking supply of jobs in the U.S. The reason for the shrinking supply of jobs has to do with the unsustainably high value of the dollar compared to the other world currencies, making Chinese workers much more in demand than American workers. The reason for the unreasonably high value of the dollar has to do with the fact that all world oil sales are required to be transacted in dollars (by explicit political agreements), necessarily creating artificial worldwide demand for dollars. This is also the reason the U.S. can get away with the unlimited money printing that fuels the college debt bubble.

These economic and political forces are what everyone really should be studying, because they affect us more than most people imagine.

Totally agree that education debt is sprialling out of control, no one polices higher ed costs. In this last decade have you heard of any college profs taking a pay cut? I know, proposterous.

But your logic above is not congruent. You state that printing money by the US is out of control, yet in the same paragraph you claim that the value of the US $ is being held too high..... well if that were so, wouldn't printing more $ be the answer to devaluing the currency? Afterall, someday a painful lesson of inflation will be the only way the US willl ever be able to repay $15 trillion and growing in debt.
LUV

 

[JustaNumber]

But your logic above is not congruent. You state that printing money by the US is out of control, yet in the same paragraph you claim that the value of the US $ is being held too high..... well if that were so, wouldn't printing more $ be the answer to devaluing the currency? Afterall, someday a painful lesson of inflation will be the only way the US willl ever be able to repay $15 trillion and growing in debt.
LUV

Read the book Currency Wars by James Rickards. Your logic initially sounds correct, but in reality all currencies are being devalued concurrently (we're not the only ones with a printing press!) It's just that the U.S. started out with the most overvalued currency in the early '70's, and we've maintained that supremacy, even though the whole world is in a race to the bottom to devalue in order to try to win more manufacturing jobs. This explains the apparent contradiction between our "strong dollar policy" and our obvious devaluating actions.

 

[WMUSIGPI]

All these lead to the question "Why pursue a 4yr degree in Aviation Technology?" and build up $100K in debt. Going to a 4 yr. college out of high school is not the only way to get your degree. The degree is not needed until the final step for the vaulted interview at DAL, FedEx, and Alaska. Go to school part time, cheap community college, get a job start building time, do on line courses, or even find an employer who has tuition assistance. Remember you are not doing this to learn much, you are doing it to check a box on the final step.

This following example in the model of success in pursing flying job. We hired a 20 year old pilot a few years ago, 1 year of on-line college credit completed, started working the ramp pumping gas in high school, got hired hauling cargo in SA-227 as an F/O, at 18, got promoted to 208 Capt. at age 20, he has 1600 TT, 1100 MEL, 350 Turbine PIC, 1450 total turbine, he is started as a DA-20 F/O at $33K, he was a DA-20 Capt. the day he turned 23, he had his degree completed by the time he was 26 years old. At that time he should had 5200 TT, 4700 MEL, 5050 Turbine, 3200 hours 121 time, 1200 121 Turbo Jet PIC. He had his on-line BS degree in Aviation Management that our company helped pay for through the tuition assistance program, and no debt.

He was just hired at a Fortune 5 company as a Corp pilot.

What kind of internal connections and hints did this wonder pilot have? Or did he basically hit the early level of powerball lotto?

 

[Smarta$$]

Read the book Currency Wars by James Rickards. Your logic initially sounds correct, but in reality all currencies are being devalued concurrently (we're not the only ones with a printing press!) It's just that the U.S. started out with the most overvalued currency in the early '70's, and we've maintained that supremacy, even though the whole world is in a race to the bottom to devalue in order to try to win more manufacturing jobs. This explains the apparent contradiction between our "strong dollar policy" and our obvious devaluating actions.

What is the solution and what should be done regarding the points you made?

 

[xjhawk]

the pilots daddy was most likely an exec at a fortune 500 company. If you cannot see the disgust in my response....yes there is disgust. Not to mention some of these National companies overlooking more experienced pilots for the less experienced for one reason or another. Oh? You ask what reasons? I am glad you asked. Other than getting interviews and jobs based on past merits it seems internal recommendations mean more than experience, just as race, gender, and the chuck Yeager factor seem to be leaving a fair number of experienced pilots scratching their heads wondering what they can do next.

In case you are wondering I served my country for 14 years as both an enlisted and an officer, four year degree from the U of MN (not on line), 5500 total time, 1500 121 Turbine PIC, earned my time as a flight instructor etc etc etc. But yet no interview, no job to get my A$$ away from Pinnacle airlines.....while I know a lot of FO's with no PIC getting jobs with jet blue, Virgin, etc etc etc.......

I don't know-myby is spelt som ting wong on me reesume?

Bitter....yes
give up....heck no

 

[pilotyip]

the pilots daddy was most likely an exec at a fortune 500 company. If you cannot see the disgust in my response....yes there is disgust. Not to mention some of these National companies overlooking more experienced pilots for the less experienced for one reason or another. Oh? You ask what reasons? I am glad you asked. Other than getting interviews and jobs based on past merits it seems internal recommendations mean more than experience, just as race, gender, and the chuck Yeager factor seem to be leaving a fair number of experienced pilots scratching their heads wondering what they can do next.

In case you are wondering I served my country for 14 years as both an enlisted and an officer, four year degree from the U of MN (not on line), 5500 total time, 1500 121 Turbine PIC, earned my time as a flight instructor etc etc etc. But yet no interview, no job to get my A$$ away from Pinnacle airlines.....while I know a lot of FO's with no PIC getting jobs with jet blue, Virgin, etc etc etc.......

I don't know-myby is spelt som ting wong on me reesume?

Bitter....yes
give up....heck no

How do you really feel? BTW The guy I referred to had no family connection,