Pink Slips - Do CFI and Mechanic Failures Count

[J.Otto]

I believe so. What we're talking about here are PTRS reports (insert TPS reports joke here). These are what the FAA uses to show work done (i.e. surveillance, checkrides, etc). Even DPEs and APDs are required to submits PTRS reports to the respective office.

Everyone's airman record shows PTRS activity. Checkrides passed, type ratings issued, CFIs renewed, etc. While these PTRSs do not show up under PRIA, they would show up under FOIA.

The question is: how many companies go the extra step and request a FOIA lookup. I don't know the answer to that.

I was under the impression that these type of 141 failures were not actually failures, but stage check failures, and would not come up as an actual failure. The 141 rides were done by inhouse as well, so maybe they like to sweep this under thr rug to make their outfit look like they dont fail too many which would indicate poor instruction and a possible revoke of their inhouse DE privileges and ability to be 141.

so this "stage check failure" then shows up on your FOIA?

 

[Gr82Aviate]

So in short, if u failed check rides during the "it's a training experience" time you are subject to the "more than x failed" of today so apply to trucking school cause ur toast. Well at least until all the 141 mills put out all the pilots they can and flights are can Elle's because of lack of crew.

I took my first flight in a 152 in oct 1992. During that semester I found out that you had to have 20/20 uncorrected to fly for an airline. So in my infodent 18 yr old decision making process I quit. See, at the time the military was putting out all the pilots and ga had little chance to even get an interview. The military began to put out less pilots and held on the ones they had, thus reducing the pilot pool.

Right now the few schools left are not putting out enough pilots for the coming age 65 retirements. Last year was the lowest start for student pilots in decades. I know, I was an independent flight instructor trying to survive.

Could you possibly translate "infodent" for us?

 

[kmox29]

...so this "stage check failure" then shows up on your FOIA?

I may have misunderstood your question. In this case, no, the "failure" would not show up in a FOIA request as there was no certification action being done (stage checks are not certification activities).

What I was referencing is when someone takes the CFI practical test and does not pass (141 or 61), the DE is required to submit a PTRS for that activity which would show the failure. That would come up in a FOIA requrest.

 

[ultrarunner]

The question is: how many companies go the extra step and request a FOIA lookup. I don't know the answer to that.

I suspect few to none. If a company needs more info on an applicant than what can get gotten from the Interview, PRIA and the questions contained in the application, then they don't trust the applicant.

99.99 percent of us answer truthfully in the interview and on the application. However, as the Colgan Captain in Buffalo showed, he wasn't opposed to lying to cover up his previous check ride failure(s).....

And as a previous poster pointed out, HR 5900 will now prevent the failures of practical checks from being excluded, including those from previous carriers..etc... That is all good....


Ultra

 

[J.Otto]

I may have misunderstood your question. In this case, no, the "failure" would not show up in a FOIA request as there was no certification action being done (stage checks are not certification activities).

What I was referencing is when someone takes the CFI practical test and does not pass (141 or 61), the DE is required to submit a PTRS for that activity which would show the failure. That would come up in a FOIA requrest.

No no, i think you actually did understand my question. The 141 applicant goes up for his CFI checkride but doesnt perform something to standards. During the so-called checkride, he is told to do a quick flight with their CFI addressing the area and comes back to eventually pass.

The 141 school does not issue a pink slip like a DPE or FAA guy at a 61 school. My understanding is that this event is not recorded as a technical failure (ONLY b/c it took place on 141 property) - unlike a 61 ride where the same scenario would yield an actual pink slip.

so what youre saying is that even though the 141 applicant did not receive a pink slip, it is still a failure?

 

[kmox29]

so what youre saying is that even though the 141 applicant did not receive a pink slip, it is still a failure?

Ok, I see what you're saying. In that case, no. If you did not receive a pink slip (i.e. Form 8060-5 Notice of Disapproval), then that "failure" would not show up on your airman record.

Sorry for the confusion.

 

[kmox29]

I suspect few to none.

I suspect you are correct. I just don't have the hard data to back up my suspicions. I just wanted people to know that (although probably rare) companies do have the option of a FOIA request, so I'd be honest. :beer:

 

[J.Otto]

thanks, kmox!

 

[Wankel7]

I was recently told by a top dog at AirTran that the FAA is going to be observing the checkrides for any new hire who as 4 or more Notices of Disapproval in their FAA files. This is a new FAA order on account of the Records Act. He said that CFI rides will count from what he thought. This doesn't make sense to me because a CFI ride is not a pilot checkride just the same as a mechanic check ride isn't either. Remember the FAA does not recognize a CFI check as a pilot proficiency check for Flight Review purposes and of course an A&P check doesn't count either, yet both generate pink slips for the airman file.

Comments please.....

Every time I've done a checkride I've assumed the FAA could show up and observe...

 

[kmox29]

Every time I've done a checkride I've assumed the FAA could show up and observe...

A good rule to live by.

When the FAA shows up for your checkride, rarely are they there to observe you. Generally, they show up to complete required surveillance on a Check Airman or an APD.

Yes, during that process they will be witnessing your checkride, but normally the focus is on the pilot conducting the check.