Pilots, White Collar or Blue Collar

[XJohXJ]

Typical Republican debating tactics: Personally attact your opponent instead of debating the ideas they present. Takes an awful lot of critical thinking now, doesn't it? Yes, in an era where the rich are getting richer and everyone else is getting significantly poorer and the middle-class are shrinking rapidly, I would have to agree that class warfare is alive and well in America, and the rich are winning hands down, with the full support of the current administration. Heck, Warren Buffet admitted as much, why can't you?

How about those grossly overpaid and unproductive airline CEO's, who are earning several hundred times more than you are, have they been helping you or your company lately? How about the wildly overpaid health insurance corporate leaders? Where do you think they get their money? From workers, thats correct, right out of our pockets, and they make more by denying treatment to workers. But no, there's no class warfare going on now, is there?

 

[stonewall]

Typical Republican debating tactics: Personally attact your opponent instead of debating the ideas they present. Takes an awful lot of critical thinking now, doesn't it? Yes, in an era where the rich are getting richer and everyone else is getting significantly poorer and the middle-class are shrinking rapidly, I would have to agree that class warfare is alive and well in America, and the rich are winning hands down, with the full support of the current administration. Heck, Warren Buffet admitted as much, why can't you?

How about those grossly overpaid and unproductive airline CEO's, who are earning several hundred times more than you are, have they been helping you or your company lately? How about the wildly overpaid health insurance corporate leaders? Where do you think they get their money? From workers, thats correct, right out of our pockets, and they make more by denying treatment to workers. But no, there's no class warfare going on now, is there?

Debating tactics? How is anyone supposed to debate "Bush hates poor people?" You define that as intellligent debate?

I agree there is a widening disparity between rich and poor in this country, but that's not a subject you brought up. I also wasn't aware that corporate malfeasance began in 2000 with the election of a GOP administration. Can you unequivocally state that the seeds for the corporate f*ck overs in recent years WERE NOT sown in the 90s under Bill Clinton?

 

[Wildmanny]

Where's the moderator? Kill this thread--it's gone on too long and has crept out of control.

By the way, I'm blue collar, but have a MASSIVE white collar attitude!

 

[Waldom]

We are in the livery trade and henceforth "blue collar". In our profession, we are supposed to be pragmatic. To view ourselves as white collar is frankly delusional.

 

[pilotyip]

blue collar, white collar, dirty collor, who cares? If you are doing something you like and being paid for it, you are indeed lucky. Fly because you like to, etc.

 

[maru657]

The profession has always been blue collar but at least it once had a strong national union. Govt; control of jumpseats? no way, Pilots and flight crews going through security? not a chance. At one time ALPA was strong enough to shut the country down. Now it's just a lip service organization with no real agenda or strength. The pilots hired by secretarys at the few majors have had no reason to complain in the past or risk any job satisfaction supporting the pilots at other carriers. Now pay and benefits are being cut across the line and job satisfaction is pretty much gone. Good, it probably won't get better until it hits rock bottom and we're closing on that target fast. Prior to the "blue flue" episode at AA, 75% of allied political donations went to republicans. I'm not saying there weren't plenty of useless idiots within the democratic party, but their platform didn't call for the destruction of unions. So, given the opportunity. I'd scab Allied tomorrow. I figure they supported an anti union agenda in the past when they thought they were bullet proof so as the saying goes, "you can't scab a scab".

 

[shooter]

The profession has always been blue collar but at least it once had a strong national union. Govt; control of jumpseats? no way, Pilots and flight crews going through security? not a chance. At one time ALPA was strong enough to shut the country down. Now it's just a lip service organization with no real agenda or strength. The pilots hired by secretarys at the few majors have had no reason to complain in the past or risk any job satisfaction supporting the pilots at other carriers. Now pay and benefits are being cut across the line and job satisfaction is pretty much gone. Good, it probably won't get better until it hits rock bottom and we're closing on that target fast. Prior to the "blue flue" episode at AA, 75% of allied political donations went to republicans. I'm not saying there weren't plenty of useless idiots within the democratic party, but their platform didn't call for the destruction of unions. So, given the opportunity. I'd scab Allied tomorrow. I figure they supported an anti union agenda in the past when they thought they were bullet proof so as the saying goes, "you can't scab a scab".

Maru657, your post made a lot of questions pop in my head. This was not the thread to ask them, so I started a new one "questions about ALPA and it's history". I quoted your post to ask some of the questions. just wanted you to know.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

blue collar, white collar, dirty collor, who cares? If you are doing something you like and being paid for it, you are indeed lucky. Fly because you like to, etc.

You basically reapeated your signature line...

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

More class-warfare rhetoric from the left. Is that all you libs have to offer?

What has the current Admin done to support your profession?

 

[pilotyip]

Rez, is there something wrong with being paid a decent wage to do something you like, that makes you feel good about your chosen profession, and that you left and came back to because compared to another type of job it is the best job out there? A job you wanted from the first time you saw an airplane as a kid in1947. Is that what you are saying?

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Rez, is there something wrong with being paid a decent wage to do something you like, that makes you feel good about your chosen profession, and that you left and came back to because compared to another type of job it is the best job out there? A job you wanted from the first time you saw an airplane as a kid in1947. Is that what you are saying?

Of course not.

Is there something wrong with being politically engage in the process that effect your pay and work rules?

Is it wrong to be represented on the issues that effect you?

 

[PCL_128]

What has the current Admin done to support your profession?

It's not the administration's job to advance my profession. That's my job. The administration's job is to protect the citizens of this country, uphold the rule of law, and advance economic policy that benefits all citizens. They've done an excellent job as far as I'm concerned. If you're expecting the administration to fight your labor battles for you, then you're expecting too much of any administration.

But since you asked the question, I'll turn it back on you: what did the Clinton administration do for labor (remember NAFTA?)? How about the Carter administration (remember, deregulation was signed in '78 by good 'ole Jimmy)?

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

It's not the administration's job to advance my profession. That's my job.

Is it the Admins job to restrict it?

The administration's job is to protect the citizens of this country, uphold the rule of law, and advance economic policy that benefits all citizens.

Sounds like a quote from Civics 101. Are you willing to regress in your career for the benefit of all citizens?

They've done an excellent job as far as I'm concerned.

Of course... from your perspective.

You haven't been furloughed or displaced yet. Or voted on a concessionary TA and felt the pain of pay cuts and work rule regressions, like a majority of the Air Line Pilots have. Until then.......? !!

If you're expecting the administration to fight your labor battles for you, then you're expecting too much of any administration.

HA! I expect the Admin to do exactly what they are doing! For they are not in favor or labor! However, I do expect those who are Air Line Pilots to recognize the forces that are working for and against them and act accordingly. Have you ever been working hard to push something only to find someone in the same uniform pushing back.

But since you asked the question, I'll turn it back on you: what did the Clinton administration do for labor (remember NAFTA?)? How about the Carter administration (remember, deregulation was signed in '78 by good 'ole Jimmy)?

More of this? GOP vs. DEM stuff....

ok... I'll be stupid.... Did NAFTA effect the RLA? I really don't know.

Actually, dereg was pushed by good ol Teddy Kennedy. Phil Bakes was a lobbyist/lawyer who orchistated dereg and was rewarded by Lorenzo with the EAL Prez job. And as you know Lorenzo was in bed politically with Bush I.

How about this... what do you think of the Bush II Admin changing the LM-2 reporting requirements and causing unions to spend MILLIONS of dollars in dues money un-necessarily...

 

[Whine Lover]

Brown Collar.

That's because the krAp that doesn't spew from a Pilot's mouth has a tendency to fill his wee cranium and spill from his ears onto his collar...


I Love Me Too.


YKW

 

[PCL_128]

Is it the Admins job to restrict it?

Nope. The fact that they do is certainly unfortunate, but I have much more important issues to worry about when voting: national security, the overall economy, states' rights, etc... I can't base all of my voting decisions upon labor issues, and neither should you.

Sounds like a quote from Civics 101. Are you willing to regress in your career for the benefit of all citizens?

Yes, but I don't think it has to be an either/or proposition. We can vote for politicians that are good for the country while upholding our profession at the same time. It certainly becomes more difficult when the administration isn't friendly towards labor, but again, I have more important things to worry about when voting for a President, Congressman, or Senator. An extra 5% on my next paycheck doesn't help me much if the President, Congress, and Senate are taking actions that will decimate the economy and create an environment of stagflation.

ok... I'll be stupid.... Did NAFTA effect the RLA? I really don't know.

Not likely, but it certainly affected labor in this country to an extreme extent. NAFTA has decimated the manufacturing sector in this country. You've frequently mentioned that labor always had a voice in the Clinton administration. A lot of good it did them. Lip service from an administration may make you feel better, but it doesn't really help anyone.

How about this... what do you think of the Bush II Admin changing the LM-2 reporting requirements and causing unions to spend MILLIONS of dollars in dues money un-necessarily...

I think it's absolutely ridiculous. Again, I don't pretend that the administration is friendly to labor. I just believe that smart citizens prioritize, and national security, the war on terror, and the overall economy are much higher on the priority scale than LM-2 filings.