Pilots Not Professionals ?

[sqwkvfr]

What difference does it really make?

Really, you could think of it either way...you don't have to attend an accredited institution to become a pilot, don't have to maintain membership in "professional organization"...your actions aren't so subject to interpretation that their propriety is ultimately decided by a panel of your peers, as opposed to a government bureaucrat or board.

At the same time, there's a lot of skilled labor that isn't taught at a university, requires years of study, practice, and apprenticeship, and is really nothing more than a skill that requires a high degree of judgement, experience and knowledge and allows it's possessor to earn a good living if properly applied.
I suppose that it might make sense either way, depending on your interpretation of the word "professional"...but when it comes down to it, it doesn't really matter.

Hell, there was some sort of magazine included with the Sunday paper today that listed several people along with their occupations and salaries...I was surprised to see that several of the people with a "skilled labor" job made far better money than some of the "professionals." For example, listed was a New Jersey State Trooper who earns $100K annually and a Assistant DA from California who earned $52K a year.

Do you think that trooper cares about what some newspaper or media outlet classifies her job under?

 

[100LL... Again!]

Photopilot brings up a good point.

Let's look into the comparison further.

Pilots can gain all the education LEGALLY needed to go all the way to a major airline from a local FBO. No college required by law, and there ARE many non-college educated pilots at the majors. College helps, but that is another argument.

Doctors and lawyers have years of college education that is required to gain the necessary right to practice law or medicine. Additionally, you must pass industry-administered tests to determine your fitness for the position. Anyone want to try to compare the joke that is the ATP written with medical or legal ENTRANCE exams, let alone the real coursework?


When is the last time a law firm started a new hire class of 30?

Real professionals are often hired into high-level posisions based on their individual qualifications, and negotiate their own compensation, based on their percived value to the company. Airline pilots, at least, start as new hir FO's normally, and are paid the contract rate, and advance not based on their skills or value to the company, but based on the passage of time.

Having hundred of lives in your hands does not make you a proefessional, jsut because you are too insecure to admit that you are skilled labor.

I have part 91, 135 and 121 experience as well as a college degree, for those of you who are about to flame me.

Pilots are like cops - they bridge the gap between white and blue collar workers. We ARE very near the top of the skilled labor food chain, if not at the top.

 

[Ty Webb]

Pilots are like cops - they bridge the gap between white and blue collar workers. We ARE very near the top of the skilled labor food chain, if not at the top.

Hey, you can think of it anyway you want. I look at myself as part highly-skilled technician and part manager.

For the technician part, compare it to the tech that operates the radiation treatment machines at the hospital, or a nurse anaesthetist.

For the management part, well, I am running a $30 million "plant" that is moving dynamically through time and space.

DO I operate in a "professional" manner? You bet. Do I care how some yo-yo classifies me? Not unless it affects my pay or QOL, which it doesn't.

 

[100LL... Again!]

Exactly. The radiology technician is a good example.

Like yourself, I don't care how I am classified. I am more just picking on the overly sensitive among us that get their panties in a bundle over whether they are called proessionals or not.

 

[bafanguy]

You have to remember that in "pilot land" if you see that the "emperor has no clothes", you'll be seen as "bitter".

Best to keep head in sand and be "one of the guys".

... I see...

 

[asolo]

My father is a Dr. and he even stated that he is high priced labor. Thats all Dr.'s Lawyers a nd pilots and other professionals can be. They are trained for a specific task. Don't let anyone fool you into thinking that you are on a lower plateau (sp?) just because you aren't a "professional." As long as you do what you do well is what matters. Do you think that "professionals would have a great life if there were no one to collect your trash? Provide tech support for your computer, phone, or the like? How about build their house?
Well, there we have it. We rely on people who we may not consider important. Love what you do and respect others for what they do. OKay, I'll step off my soapbox.
Blue Skies.

 

[Benhuntn]

Websters says being a professional means:

Being of a group that set and maintains standards,
self polices these standards and hold accountable any member
that fails to uphold them. Johnny Cocran and others make me think that pilots are professionals and maybe lawyers aren't. Just a thought

 

[Ty Webb]

Heh-heh.

When I was a 135 Capt. I called FSS to file a flight plan one day. I was carrying a load of lawyers somewhere.

The briefer must have detected that I was used to filing with DUATS, because he was prompting me for each response. . . departure point, speed, route, etc. Then he asks, "Souls on board?" I paused.

"Waaa-aal, we got three lawyers and two pilots, and I'm not good with fractions . . . ".

I think it made his day.

 

[CandlerWun]

Skilled labor, my friends. As painful as it is to say, it is the truth. Let's all be mature enough to admit it.

Why degrade ourselves by attaching a "negative" label (or rejecting a "positive" one, however you care to look at it) to what we do? Who cares what you call it?

Josh M.

 

[bafanguy]

What difference does it really make?

...none, actually...

...just thought the original statement was interesting; some of the "responses" have also been...interesting...

 

[enigma]

As far as I'm concerned, any person who earns money, or barter, is a professional. If you work for free, you're an amatuer. If you work for something of value (i.e., not for free) you're a professional. It's pretty simple.

I make money by flying airplanes, therefore I am a professional pilot.

The concept that some occupations are of more value is an elitist idea, perpetrated by ivy league types who feel superior to most everyone else.

more later,
enigma

 

[100LL... Again!]

Plumbers are skilled labor and they definitely make more than a large percentage of the pilots.

 

[skiddriver]

Of course, this is a matter of definition, and most folks would go for the "getting paid for it" (i.e. professional athlete) vice "doing it because I enjoy it" (i.e. amateur streetwalker).

However, when one looks at an occupation and tries to decide if it is a "profession" and hence if its practitioners are "professionals", there are a few generally recognized characteristics.

1. The occupation requires specialized education, knowledge and skills.
2. The practitioners have formed a self-regulatory body and have agreed to abide by the decisions of that body.
3. The self-regulatory body has a code of conduct and ethics, and the members agree to adhere to that code.
4. There is normally a measure of altruism and public responsibility associated with the occupation.

Of these, commercial pilots clearly meet the first criteria. You might have been able to make an argument of the second at one point, but our unions are really advocacy and collective bargaining groups now, and we certainly don't meet the third or fourth. So, no, commercial pilots are not "professionals", because commercial flying is not a "profession".

Still is fun though...

 

[pilotyip]

I do not think there is much of an argument against pilots being professionals. Almost everyone agrees it is a defined profession by almost any standards.

 

[The_Russian]

100LL,

Please explain how GIA pilots are not "Professionals". I had two engine failures this week and environmental smoke with one of them. My work kept the lives of 31 people safe while traveling in the air.

 

[avbug]

Skiddriver,


While pilots in general tend to be mealy mouthed wife cheating whiners, it's certainly a legitimate profession that does indeed meet each of the four criteria you named. Certainly in comparison to other "professions," we do indeed have codes of ethics outside of union involvement, and we are publically recognized with a high degree of public responsibility. A great deal of self-regulation does indeed go on within the industry, at many levels. Associations, organizations, much like the American Medical Association in medicine, and numerous independent Bar associations for attorneys, serve to provide guidance in the flying community.

The National Business Aircraft Association is one such place. Additionally, further safegaurds of legitimacy exist that do not come into play among other physicians, such as mandatory reporting and background investigation for pilots with certain operators or carriers.

Some segments of the industry are highly self regulating. One area I work in involves single engine air tankers. The SEAT association, working closely with certain government figures, saw a need to elevate safety and the image of the community, and now has five different schools and qualifications that are due yearly. Unless one is employed by a member of the association, one can attend some of the schools, but will receive no credit and still can't get the government certification that follows. A true cooperation between private business, industry, and the government, with some very positive tangible results. And so on, and so on.

Having said that, the nature of the pilot is more like a highly paid ski instructor than an attorney or doctor. The monkey skills of flying are physical skills of manipulation that can be taught to a chimpanzee (I think I've been crewed with a few). What cannot be taught, what cannot be bought, and what cannot be simulated is judgement, and that's what we are paid for in the cockpit. The actions we take based on our judgement are only ancillary and supportive of our true roles; we are paid for experience, wisdom, and judgement in the cockpit, and upon that rests both public lives and trust.

For many years, I fought the stigma among family and others that I should quit flying and get a real job. I worked all sorts of employment during that time, flying all kinds of aircraft in all types of service, big to small, private to service work, and beyond. The common question during much of those years...what do you want to be when you grow up?

I couldn't give a rats pitutie about public perception. If I fly the public from A to B, they still get the same professional standard of ride from me weather they think I'm unskilled labor or weather they think I'm His Royal Airmanship. I don't care. If I put out a fire next to someone's house, they're still alive and they still have a place to stay weather or not they decide I'm a nice guy or weather or not they think I'm doing a legitimate job. And I still get paid, either way. If I put chemical on a crop and stop pests from destroying it, I've helped increase the world's food yield, and had a part in the economy and food chain of which I can be proud, weather anybody recognizes it or not.

If someone needs recognition, if someone needs validation to do this job, then they're soon to be sorely disappointed, and one could venture that they're in the wrong profession. We are a profession of doers, not backslappers. My suggestion? Fly. Shut up and fly, and don't worry about what the Jones' are doing or what they're thinking. Just fly.

Am I a professional? Yes. But more importantly, I'm an aviator. Quite possibly a mediocre one, I can't say. I don't think so, but then I'm not interested in weather the public labels me a professional or not. I've been called far worse. Flying heavy tankers I was more commonly labled "tanker trash," and it's a label that never offended me much. I've been known to wear it with pride. Perhaps that's because I still am tanker trash.

In that particular industry, public perception is very skewed. It's a very misunderstood job. Do I care? No, not really. It doesn't change the way I do my job, and shouldn't change the way you do yours. Some pilots need the world to know who they are. Stickers all over the car, cutsie license plates. All but a tatoo of their airplane on their forehead. They check into hotels and put the aircraft number or type in place of the car on the checkin slip, just to be cute. Brag at bars and pepper their dialogue with "pilot lingo." Gotta have that recognition.

A few years ago we checked into a hotel one night. We asked about discounts. Turned out the government discounts weren't as good as those for truck drivers. We checked in, not as pilots, but as truck drivers. When asked what kind of truck we drove (we were flying tankers), the easy answer was "belly dump." They were satisfied, we got our discount, and who cares what kind of recognition we got? We got something better. Ten percent off, and a free bagel in the morning. That beats recognition any day.

I still think we managed to be just as "professional."

 

[skiddriver]

Avbug,

I certainly enjoyed your well written rebuttal, but the point is that while some segments of commercial flying may reasonably meet the criteria as a profession, most do not. Further, you don't have to be the member of any self-regulating organization to practice as a commercial pilot, at least in the US. While we all may hate lawyers, you have to be a member of the bar to hang out your shingle.

The issue here is that folks confuse being referred to as a "professional" with being skilled, responsible, and important. Its not the same thing, though if it is a matter of personal validation to someone, more power to them.

There are a lot of ways to define a profession, and a quick Google of the phrase "characteristics of a profession" (of which Google will disregard at least two words) brings up quite a few. As one reads through these, the constant theme is that a profession provides a service for the good of society in an altruistic fashion, and the practitioners of that profession are governed by a code of ethics and standards that they have mutually agreed to abide by.

I just don't think commercial aviation meets that standard. I'm sure most folks here will disagree with me. That's why we have horse races.

I certainly agree however, that most pilots behave "professionally", which is quite a different thing.

 

[100LL... Again!]

Because you are a bunch of PFT wankers.

 

[bestpilot]

You have really become the bulletin board idiot.... (in case YOU haven't figured THAT out....)

I'm telling my MOMMY! You're a mean man! Boo Hoo Hoo.

 

[bestpilot]

I make money by flying airplanes, therefore I am a professional pilot.

The concept that some occupations are of more value is an elitist idea, perpetrated by ivy league types who feel superior to most everyone else.

more later,
enigma

I dig what you're saying, my brother from another mother, but it's so deep I think I need to think about it later, afeter I've had a few brewskis!