Piloting career regrets?

[Timebuilder]

I was smarter than my parents and grandparents, tired of school

Oh, yes. I recall those feelings. I pictured myself as a doc, reaching into a retired colonel's fat gut and said "none for me, thanks".

I wish now that I had been able to think about my future instead of an old man's hernia.

 

[Gulfstream 200]

Avbug,

I like your posts, I find them to be a great read...

but man...ya gotta lay off a bit..

sleeping in planes, under wings, changing engines in hurricanes, getting bashed by nuclear thunderstorms...???

pretty interesting.

 

[flywithastick]

Get a good paying job and buy your own airplane, then you'll really look forward to the drive to the airport.

...all week long. And for two or three weeks if the weather's bad or you have things that keep you from the airport.

Having your own equipment is very satisfying and a lot of fun. But 1-2 hrs every couple of weeks isn't enough to offset enduring bull$#!t 8-10 hrs a day, M-F, IMVHO.

One thing for sure - the grass is always greener on the other side.

 

[becket]

If you have any doubts now, don't do it. Honestly, if I had to do it again, I'm not sure I would, and I'm one of the lucky ones. I was furloughed by a major airline and hired again by another major post 9/11. I'll share with you an observation I received years ago. It is the best, most accurate summation of flying for a living I've ever heard, it goes like this

"it's a great job but a shi**y career


I'll leave it up to you to interpret that.

 

[TurboS7]

Hawkins and Powers

You guys obviously have not flown or worked for Hawkins and Powers Aviation. I believe everything AvBug has said and have been there with the guys and observed it all. The only thing I don't buy is seeing the top of a TRW with a C-119, I assume that was with some other outfit flying LR-23's. Carry on.

 

[captainv]

this is what i love to do. follow your passion, i think that's your best shot at being happy. if, after 10 years, you hate what you're doing, do something else!!

still, the question is a little silly. do we have regrets over what has actually happened in our careers versus what we imagine might have happened if we'd become doctors, lawyers, professional athletes? sure. do we have a realistic view of those other careers? i doubt it.

Doctors - every friend of mine in medicine has close to $200k in debt after 8-10 years of training. some are lined up for lucrative tracks - radiology, dermatology - some aren't. they work lots of weekends/holidays/graveyard shifts when they're getting started. some will make hundreds of thousands a year, most will probably make $60,000 - $80,000. with managed care, most salaries have dropped at least 30%. you think aviation is a messed up industry? what, like health care is some beacon of efficiency and aptitude? and hey, if your landing doesn't come out quite the way you planned, at least you don't get sued to have your license taken away...

Lawyers - also takes many years/$$$ to become one. Average salary? less than $40k/year. still, i know a guy who got on with a prestigious firm in Chicago. makes close to $100k after 3 years with the firm. works at least 80/hours a week. only goes out with people from work - has no time to meet anyone else. gained 30 pounds in last two years, doesn't have time/energy to work out. desperately wants to find someone and get married but is depressed about rate of divorce among colleagues. wants to transfer to smaller city/smaller firm but can't afford it until loans are paid off in 15 years. works mostly for big corporations defending their more than questionable actions.

i can tell you about others who are doing great, really living the dream, but we're focusing on regrets. so why do some stay with it? it's in their blood, they don't know how to do anything else, they don't want to do anything else, they're too afraid to do anything else? depends on the person.

you want to work 9 to 5? there are jobs out there. Want to spend more time with the family? ok, then do it. What's stopping you? You think your kid really cares if you're a pilot vs. a garbageman? more likely, it's you that cares more.

every year or so i'll find an article about a school janitor who leaves $2 million to the school district after he passes away. usually the guy worked there most of his life, lived simply, invested what he earned, sent his kids off to colleges he could never afford, then gave back to the place where he saw so many dreams, so much potential.

Choices, choices, choices. all you have to do is make them.

 

[Gulfstream 200]

good post..

but I think your lawyer salary is a little out of wack...

having 3 friends (2 male 1 female) who are lawyers in thier late 20's early 30's - I can tell you that YES they had big student loan debt. 2 of 3 had that paid off instantly the day they joined a good firm. All make EASY six figure incomes. They do work long hours, but they also golf quite a bit (part of work)..they party quite a bit...

none went to ivy league law schools (2 were ivy undergrads).

Show me a lawyer who starts at less than 40K and I say he/she is a fool.

 

[b757driver]

At least you are asking the right questions and already know there is a downside.

Flying for a living is more a lifestyle and much, much more than a job. However, if I had my time again, I would run a mile. Too many problems nowadays, it's no longer fun. Pay piss poor, poor CEOs, not enough job security (did it ever have any, I don't think so), to mention just a few.

It's OK if you are a 20-something CRJ driver currently in work but if you are 40+, furloughed or laid off for the next 4 years with no prospects, it ain't the career you want. Don't get me wrong, I used to love it, maybe still do. But the heartaches are not worth it in the long run. FYI, I have 3 ICAO licenses, a string of type ratings, 5 layoffs over 12 years (each time starting over) plenty of hours both international and domestic but no hits in over a year. What other profession would even put up with that kind of thing, not once but several times over. With due respects to my younger colleagues, you haven't even begun to live until you have seen/been what I have.

As for Mr. Kit Darby, his main job is to get your hard earned cash and for that, he will spin whatever story he needs so you will buy it. Seen it before. When the economy is down, he and other like companies will go on the rampage to recruit members. Great if you are a wannabe and don't know Jack about 135/121 airlines - otherwise, it's all hype. As a UAL pilot, he is probably furloughed himself or about to be. So go figure, Air Inc is likely his only source of income. All I'm saying is his organization is like a Costco/Sam's Club warehouse where you can buy general info in bulk. I've seen better info on this borad and elsewhere on the internet and without paying for flights and hotels you can ill-afford. Whether it will work for you in the end is merely a crap shoot! Then again, you might not worry about spending your cash to be told that SWA, ATA, ACA or whoever are going to be at the next seminar. It really makes no difference unless you are already in cahoots with the HR director or Chief Pilot. That's how the real world works.
Glad it works out for some but newcomers REALLY need to have their eyes fully open before embarking on this "career" and know something of negatives which are far more prevalent than almost any other industry.
Just my two cents worth!

 

[SDF2BUF2MCO]

Whatever you do try to do something you can enjoy and hopefully the money will be there or will get there.
I'm in operational management. The only thing I "enjoy" about my current job is that it is fairly "easy", an "easy" schedule, and I get paid "well" for what I do. Don't know how long that will last though. Otherwise, it is boring as can be and offers minimal satisfaction. Like some of the posters have said either go for a flying job and hope the pay and satisfaction are there or go for a job where you can afford plenty of flight time outside of work. I cringe at the thought of having approximately another 20 years (assuming no layoffs, etc.) of this in front of me .
At the same time, if it wasn't for my job I wouldn't be flying today. Bittersweet.

 

[Speedtree]

I regret that I didn't start flying sooner. I got all my ratings in college. I regret that I went into debt to finance my ratings. Now I am paying for it. I would have been better off paying as I went.

However I would probably live somewhere else and wouldn't be married to my lovely wife and have the wonderful boy I do now so in reality, my life isn't perfect but I don't have any serious regrets.


I regret not studying harder in flight school. I regret saying some things to another instructor in the heat of the moment. I regret not giving some of my students better instruction.


Like I said, I'm not perfect. I have learned from my mistakes and hopefully a better person now than I was.

Flying is a very rewarding career in some ways but also one that requires sacrifice, persistance, and dedication. I would reiterate the suggestion to stay single if you need to. It's hard to start out in the aviation business being married.

 

[Mr. Irrelevant]

Show me a lawyer who starts at less than 40K and I say he/she is a fool.

Gulfstream, I really enjoy your posts but in regards to that statement, let me tell you about some fools...... Two lawyers, both just out of law school in 1990, started their own practice. One lived at home, worked nights and weekends at the family pizza place to make dough on the side, the other temped with high school and college kids to earn extra money(did that for years after working all day). Takes time to build clientele. Both shared a small office for about 10 years. One does real estate law and by rough estimate made over 500k a year the last two-three years. The other just does small claims, some estate law, is a coverage attorney for a big city municipal court. He makes around 65-90k, just a guess. Not a ton, but is HIS OWN BOSS. No ridiculous reviews each year by his boss and golf on Friday afternoons in the summer. Sacrifice coupled with hard work pays pretty **CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED** well for lawyers, and I'm sure we'll all mostly agree, for other professions as well.

My advice is do what you want. I think it probably makes it easier regardless of the hardships.


Mr. I.

 

[b757driver]

EUT

Very moving story & I empathise totally.

I don't have any kids but do have a beautiful wife for thr past 12 years who knew what I did for a living. In fact, she has watched my career disintegrate every 4 years with the 5th layoff last year when my upmteenth carrier went bust after the employees involuntarily took pay cuts to bail them out. Still did not prevent the inevitable. I, too, used to be a poor flight instructor paying my dues not once - but TWICE. A few years ago, I took a job overseas for 2.5 years flying brand new shiny 737-800s all over Europe. I commuted from London to LAX/LAS every 4-5 months and the wife visited once, maybe twice a year. We did this to keep my career going. Now I am entering my second year of unemployment, having gotten yet another type rating in the interim, hoping it would make me more marketable. Nothing, not a single interview in over a year. Is this what I want? Is this the supposed "dream"? Of course not.
However, you are right EUT, there comes a time when you no longer can turn over and say "kick me again". Enough is enough. And it has absolutely NOTHING to do with attitude and perserverance. I could write the book on both those subjects and blow any HR person into space. The bottom line is you owe your family and the people who have stood by you through thick and thin. What have the airlines promised you - nothing! There is no such thing as job security and while I realise there are probably many other professions like this, airline pilots must come in the top 25% of unstable careers today.

The decision has to be a personal one and one based on individual circumstances. I love flying, always have done but consider it's not me that has given up, it's flying that has given up on me. There is nothing more I can do (really) to get an interview or even another flying job. Been trying for over a year with no success.

Good luck EUT in your endeavors. You certainly have your priorities right. And for those that still have their dream job, remember this: NO ONE IS SAFE - YOU COULD BE NEXT. What will you do then when you are not likely to be called back for @ least 2 years?? Friend of mine from UAL thought he had enough seniority to escape after 15 YEARS with the company. You guessed it, he got furloughed last week and he just bought a larger house!

 

[Floyd94]

My only regret???

...not starting soon enough...

 

[Typhoon1244]

My only regret...not starting soon enough...

Amen to that!

 

[Pilot Doc]

As a doctor who almost went the career pilot route, I'll throw in my two cents. The best comment someone made is that the grass is always greener elsewhere. I love aviation, but have very little opportunity to fly. I read magazines, haunt bulletin boards and hope to get checked out in a 182 someday. When I'm dealing with a family-killing drunk driver who's shooting up in his room at 2am, it's easy to second guess myself. I could have been a captain on something by now.

Medicine is much less attractive than it once was - certainly very few physicians can afford turbines - but it's still a fascinating and incredibly stable career. I make $40K a year plus benefits, not great for 80 hours a week, but it beats FO pay. I keep that up for the next 6-8 years and then I should make substantially more. And I can buy my own plane

 

[swc12nap1]

As a doctor who almost went the career pilot route, I'll throw in my two cents. The best comment someone made is that the grass is always greener elsewhere. I love aviation, but have very little opportunity to fly. I read magazines, haunt bulletin boards and hope to get checked out in a 182 someday. When I'm dealing with a family-killing drunk driver who's shooting up in his room at 2am, it's easy to second guess myself. I could have been a captain on something by now.

Medicine is much less attractive than it once was - certainly very few physicians can afford turbines - but it's still a fascinating and incredibly stable career. I make $40K a year plus benefits, not great for 80 hours a week, but it beats FO pay. I keep that up for the next 6-8 years and then I should make substantially more. And I can buy my own plane

Why only $40K? I assume you are doing your residency?

 

[Pilot Doc]

Why only $40K? I assume you are doing your residency?

Correct. The progression is

med school - 4 years. I spent $75K on tuition. No income. (Analagous careerwise to getting your comm/multi/inst.)

residency - 3 - 10 years. Work 80 hours/week for $35-50K/year. (Analagous careerwise to having a healthy amount of 121 Turbine PIC)

practice - Work/income ratio varies from infinity to zero. (Given a willingness to move anywhere and do anything, $80-100K is a near guarantee.)

I'm a first year resident.

 

[Typhoon1244]

...residency = 3-10 years.

As many as ten years??? Good gravy, I had no idea!

 

[skywiz]

why not go military?

Good posts, but everyone keeps talking about job security and how to make a living flying....

I am surprised no one has mentioned the military route? Its very secure (8 year commitement) and you are guarenteed to fly a turbine aircraft(if you make it through training). AND you make enough money to be very comfortable, and if you are married there are even more benefits.

I would recommend anyone who REALLY likes flying and who wants it to be a career to look into the military flight program. You also get to fly aircraft and missions in the military that you would NEVER be able to fly in the civilian world. On top of that, if you decide to get out after 10 years, you have many many options... (if you want to go airlines, the military flight resume is a definite plus)

 

[Typhoon1244]

Re: why not go military?

Originally posted by skywiz
I am surprised no one has mentioned the military route? Its very secure (8 year commitement) and you are guarenteed to fly a turbine aircraft (if you make it through training). AND you make enough money to be very comfortable, and if you are married there are even more benefits.

Just playing Devil's advocate...you fly, what? Eighty hours a year? Ninety? And you've got how many collateral duties?

Don't get me wrong, I'd have loved to fly in the Army. But the military's got its downsides too.