Pilot Union Wants To Reopen Airline Contracts

[DrewBlows]

This sounds good. I'm glad the union is taking a stand, but how exactly are they going to do it? Are we just going to ask management to reopen negotiations? Does Prater have pictures of the CEOs in compromising situations? I hope so.

 

[BoilerUP]

I'm outside of Toontown (Wash DC) these days, about 45 minutes away from Dulles and an hour from DCA or BWI...

 

[Swaayze]

Take a look at what the Morons at AWA / AAA are trying to do.............

8+30 rest
Stand ups

So Much for Takin It Back !!! We are offering concessions (at an airline that jus tmade 500 Million dollars last year) !!!

FWIW regarding the 8+30, this is from the public code-a-phone a month or so ago:

There have been questions by pilots concerning the T/A’d (tentatively agreed upon) rest provisions described in the February 16th JNC Update.

First and foremost, it is important to understand that the new agreed upon rest provisions are an improvement over the current East contract. Secondly, it is important to know that in the JNC Update, the negotiators wrote in terms of required “Rest” time” and not block to block time which would require adding the pre-flight and post-flight time, currently 1:15 to the required rest time. The following bullet points illustrate the agreed upon changes:
·Current East required “Rest” time is 8:30 reducible to 8+00
·Newly T/A’d “Rest” 9:30. This is reducible only to 8:30.
·This 8:30 reduction may only occur once in a pairing. All other rest periods in a trip must be at or above 9+30. Any rest period below 9+30 triggers the following restrictions for the following duty day:
- Maximum scheduled duty 10+00 hrs.
- Maximum of three scheduled legs.
- Subsequent rest must not be less than 12+00 hrs.
- Also, Restricted to only mutually agreed upon stations which can have reduced rest, either scheduled or irregular ops and specific hotel requirements for those stations that are approved.

 

[Lear70]

And that makes it better how?

Anything less than 10 hours of rest is unsafe.

Most people need about 7 hours of rack time just to avoid fatigue. Another hour to get ready, half an hour to and from the airport including waiting for van, clearing security the next morning, etc makes another hour, plus an extra hour for getting food (half hour on each side of the clock).

That's 10 hours. Take an hour and a half from that means you either don't get dinner, and get an hour less sleep (6 hours), OR you don't get breakfast and get an hour less sleep (6 hours), OR you get 1 1/2 hours less sleep (5 1/2).

They did that at the REGIONAL I was at. Once each pairing. Followed by comp rest. Just like that paragraph you quoted.

It was miserable. Walking zombie by the end of your 3rd leg and many times borderline unsafe due to fatigue, especially if you had to commute in the day of that reduced rest and were already up and moving for 14, 16, even 18 hours before you got into the rack for that reduced rest.

Thank GOD my current carrier doesn't schedule like that. Irregular Ops is the ONLY excuse for that kind of reduced rest period, and it should automatically trigger a max of 2 legs back into domicile to be replaced by a reserve crew with full pay protection and a company-paid hotel in domicile until the trip can be resumed the following day OR released with full pay for the remainder of the trip.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

We need to march on D.C.--pilots, FA's, mechs, rampers, agents--anyone who has gotten screwed by management. And we need to start the march on K Street where all the lobbying firms are located to point out that Congress is owned by the lobbyists.

The only way to get Congress to put pressure on CEO's is by paying them or embarrassing them. We don't have enough money to outspend the CEO's and buy a Congressman so we've got to make our case public. TC

That would be May 17th. Are you game?


http://www.17may07.org/day_of_action.htm

 

[Swaayze]

And that makes it better how?

Anything less than 10 hours of rest is unsafe.

...... Followed by comp rest. Just like that paragraph you quoted.

First, you're preaching to the choir. I agree with pretty much your whole post on the issues of rest. FTDT is a hotbutton with me and RR (especially scheduled) is ridiculous. I was simply pointing out that they're looking to better their current conditions, not (as you seem to claim) scheduled to 8+ but rather to 9+ with the ability to go < 9+30 only for operational delays, not scheduled.

12+00 is not necessarily a normal comp rest. Often 10+00 is a legal comp rest. The 10+00 duty day and 3 leg limits following are not FAA based at all. All of these limits are improvements over FAA requirements.

So basically they've improved somewhat on what the company and the FAA have rights to at this point, contrary to your assertion. I don't have any info on other LCC negotiations at this point so I'm not informed to discuss your other claims.

BTW I'm not looking to get in a p'ing match here. I just prefer that facts are used to support one's opinions. Whether by choice or simple error your statement didn't seem to me to be completely factual so I wanted to provide what little info I have about it.

Regards.

 

[Lear70]

First, it was YOUR post on the issue that made it sound like 8:30 rest time was what it could be reduced to. If I misunderstood the way you intended it, my apologies.

Second, I know 121.471(b) forwards and backwards and have testified in federal court regarding the scheduling of rest, compensatory rest, and related issues.

I never said the 3 leg max was an FAA limit. Where did you get that? I never said those proposed limits at UAir weren't better than FAR limits. Again, I don't know where you're going with that? It's a tangent that I never even discussed.

The POINT is that it's still an unbelievably crappy agreement, whether it's better than current book or not, and I would vote it down if it came in a T.A.

Originally Posted by AA717driver
We need to march on D.C.--pilots, FA's, mechs, rampers, agents--anyone who has gotten screwed by management. And we need to start the march on K Street where all the lobbying firms are located to point out that Congress is owned by the lobbyists.

The only way to get Congress to put pressure on CEO's is by paying them or embarrassing them. We don't have enough money to outspend the CEO's and buy a Congressman so we've got to make our case public. TC

That would be May 17th. Are you game?


http://www.17may07.org/day_of_action.htm

http://www.17may07.org/day_of_action.htm
That's great, Rez. Now when is ALPA going to announce that they're on board with it?

I'm sorry, I hear that giant sucking silence over at Herndon again.

If ALPA and the CAPA unions would get on board with it, I'd be there. A couple thousand uniformed pilots would look GREAT in the center of that march!

Would probably get more attention as well. The public would LOVE that one...

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

That's great, Rez. Now when is ALPA going to announce that they're on board with it?

Do they HAVE to?

I'm sorry, I hear that giant sucking silence over at Herndon again.

What does that have to do with it...

If ALPA and the CAPA unions would get on board with it, I'd be there. A couple thousand uniformed pilots would look GREAT in the center of that march!

Why do you need ALPA or CAPA there. Why can't you just show up? I don't get it?

Would probably get more attention as well. The public would LOVE that one...

So show up....

 

[Lear70]

Why do you need ALPA or CAPA there. Why can't you just show up? I don't get it?

Yes you do, you're just playing dumb (and doing a good job of it).

Again, with bold, to make it blatantly obvious.

If ALPA and the CAPA unions would get on board with it, I'd be there. A couple thousand uniformed pilots would look GREAT in the center of that march!

In other words, one uniformed pilot in the center of a mass of several thousand mechanics and other techs would go almost unnoticed.

1,000+ uniformed pilots marching in unison at the core would be a huge eye catcher.

One person alone can't do jack sh*t. It takes an organized group to make a difference at any level. You of all people should recognize this obvious fact in labor relations.

You really irritate me when you deliberately try to ignore an argument because you have no defense for it.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Yes you do, you're just playing dumb (and doing a good job of it).

Let's hold off on that...

Again, with bold, to make it blatantly obvious.

For whom....?

In other words, one uniformed pilot in the center of a mass of several thousand mechanics and other techs would go almost unnoticed.

It is called the labor movement!!!! AFL-CIO. But you still don't get it...

1,000+ uniformed pilots marching in unison at the core would be a huge eye catcher.

You mean 999. Cause your followership won't budge unless there is "leadership" that meets your standards....

One person alone can't do jack sh*t. It takes an organized group to make a difference at any level. You of all people should recognize this obvious fact in labor relations.

But you can't organize yourself to show up....

You really irritate me when you deliberately try to ignore an argument because you have no defense for it.

Just start particpating in this career. Show up....