Pilot Union Wants To Reopen Airline Contracts

[Lear70]

And here in lies a major problem....

OK, you still don't get it, probably because you don't know me and all the work I did for ALPA when I was at an ALPA carrier and the work I do now.

I vote every time something comes up, and urge others to as well.

THAT'S why you're barking up the wrong tree telling me to get involved and it offends me for someone to say I'm NOT involved, given the work I've done.

Leaders have a vision. What you describe is followership not leadership.

And Leaders bear the responsibility to instill confidence and followership in the pilots they represent.

You don't get a magic pass to suddenly have a group of people start to follow you. This isn't the military.

You have to EARN people's trust and followership. Sorry you don't like it. That's the way life is, so how are you going to accomplish it?

You can TALK all you want about how people fail to get involved, WHAT ARE YOU GOING TO DO ABOUT THE REALITY THAT EXISTS??

You talk all around the problem, but have no solution.

Thanks foe sandbaging...

How? By pointing out the reality of human nature?

Why wait? Your hesitation is hurting.. quit waiting for something for you. We've got nothing to lose if you put some faith..

Again, NOT the way to instill confidence and motivate people to follow you. "You have nothing to lose, so COME ON!"

That was before regionals too...

And who created that problem? Oh yeah, ALPA.

Are you willing to make self sacrfices?

Always have. Again, wrong tree.

Ok... but they are still going to vote on labor legislation.

Yes, and since NONE of them have a good labor track record, your whining about people voting in labor-friendly Presidents is for nothing.

Unprecedented membership particaption is another. How innovative...
If the last seven years isn't motivation, I don't know what is...

Again, poor incentive.

So... are you sympathetic to the consumer over your career? You want to stike a phcuk the consumer... so whats the diff...

Do you even WORK in aviation?

A strike isn't about screwing the CONSUMER. It's about FORCING the company to quit raping the employee.

Where the hell did you get THAT tangent from?

The point was that the consumer gets caught in the crossfire, NOT that they are a deliberate target, and that there are a LOT more aviation consumers out there than there are pilots.

It takes votes to win re-election; I can guarantee you the politicians are a lot less worried about our votes than the majority of the flying public.

Your AR-15 to managements nukes.... good luck!

So you've given up before you've even started the battle?

Nice. THAT'S the kind of Leadership I want... sounds great, where do I sign up?

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

OK, you still don't get it, probably because you don't know me and all the work I did for ALPA when I was at an ALPA carrier and the work I do now.

good!

I vote every time something comes up, and urge others to as well.

We have more in common than not.

THAT'S why you're barking up the wrong tree telling me to get involved and it offends me for someone to say I'm NOT involved, given the work I've done.

My apologies. What are you doing for the NPA?

And Leaders bear the responsibility to instill confidence and followership in the pilots they represent.

You don't get a magic pass to suddenly have a group of people start to follow you. This isn't the military.

Agreed. However, followers can be leaders too. No? Just becuase the leadership is doing what YOU want them to do or be, does that mean you sit on your hands and refuse you help out? Make the place better? Well?

You have to EARN people's trust and followership. Sorry you don't like it. That's the way life is, so how are you going to accomplish it?

Agreed. but I am not going to watch my career go south wating for someone else to instill thier trust.

You can TALK all you want about how people fail to get involved, WHAT ARE YOU GOING TO DO ABOUT THE REALITY THAT EXISTS??

I am going to try and effect positive change...

You talk all around the problem, but have no solution.

Yes, I do have a solution. Its called increased particpation. It is a workable solution. The solution is not easy. The ALPA SRSRC has looked at the LEC meeting problem. How do you get pilots to paritcapte in thier career? How do you get them to help you help them?

It would seem so elementry but yet so difficult....

How? By pointing out the reality of human nature?


Again, NOT the way to instill confidence and motivate people to follow you. "You have nothing to lose, so COME ON!"

C'mon you can do it.. you can rise above it...

And who created that problem? Oh yeah, ALPA.

I didn't know ALPA created regional airlines. Did they apply to the FAA for the operating certificate. Or I could ask you to school me on how ALPA created the regional problem....

Yes, and since NONE of them have a good labor track record, your whining about people voting in labor-friendly Presidents is for nothing.

I don't suppose you'd be open to knowing how things really work in DC?

Again, poor incentive.

You need an incentive to fight for your career?

Do you even WORK in aviation?

I did until I realized something...

A strike isn't about screwing the CONSUMER. It's about FORCING the company to quit raping the employee.

Where the hell did you get THAT tangent from?

The point was that the consumer gets caught in the crossfire, NOT that they are a deliberate target, and that there are a LOT more aviation consumers out there than there are pilots.

I think the consumer bears some repsonsibility... their desire for the cheapest ticket...

It takes votes to win re-election; I can guarantee you the politicians are a lot less worried about our votes than the majority of the flying public.

Wrong....again. It takes money to win elections.

So you've given up before you've even started the battle?

Nice. THAT'S the kind of Leadership I want... sounds great, where do I sign up?

No, Let's avoid fighting a un-winnable war. Kinda smart eh? Like Bruce Lee's flighting style... Fighting without fighting..

 

[Lear70]

My apologies. What are you doing for the NPA?

Just P2P for the moment. Right now they're a little busy with negotiations and a possible T.A. before the Midwest BOD meeting to worry about much of anything else.

Agreed. However, followers can be leaders too. No? Just becuase the leadership is doing what YOU want them to do or be, does that mean you sit on your hands and refuse you help out? Make the place better? Well?

If the union leadership is doing what I want and they are effective, then yeah, I'm going to sit back and enjoy life, my family, and my career until they either start having problems or they need me to help.

When they ask for volunteers, I'll be happy to step up. This isn't, however, the case. Apathy is the problem right now, not contentedness with the current aviation toilet spiral.

Agreed. but I am not going to watch my career go south wating for someone else to instill thier trust.

I am going to try and effect positive change...

That's great, and good for you. Most pilots aren't as forward-thinking and self-motivating, which is why Leadership has to figure out a way to get people involved. We have the same problem here. We had a 75% voter turnout in the last MEC election, yet very low participation in anything else.

That means people are paying attention, but no one is willing to do any real work or challenge the status quo.

Yes, I do have a solution. Its called increased particpation. It is a workable solution. The solution is not easy. The ALPA SRSRC has looked at the LEC meeting problem. How do you get pilots to paritcapte in thier career? How do you get them to help you help them?

It would seem so elementry but yet so difficult....

You mean like Jerry Maguire? "Help me help you. Help ME help YOU."

Your question here is exactly my point. You have to incite your membership to action. That's your job as a Leader.

I didn't know ALPA created regional airlines. Did they apply to the FAA for the operating certificate. Or I could ask you to school me on how ALPA created the regional problem....

Oh c'mon now,,, be realistic. ALPA gave up scope thinking it would be a bunch of turboprops. It happened. Just acknowledge it and move on.

I don't suppose you'd be open to knowing how things really work in DC?

Yeah, actually, except I just had dinner. Seriously though, I understand the basics of money for campaigns, ads, propaganda, etc in order to "rock the vote". I understand how ALPA-PAC and CAPA-PAC work. I also understand that management's pockets are deeper than ours could ever be, which is why I think it's a lost cause on the Hill, but maybe you have better information than I do.

I think the consumer bears some repsonsibility... their desire for the cheapest ticket...

Do they bear some responsibility? Absolutely. But is my fight with them? Am I deliberately trying to screw them over when I legally withhold my services fighting for my career? Absolutely not. They're simply incidental casualties.

No, Let's avoid fighting a un-winnable war. Kinda smart eh? Like Bruce Lee's flighting style... Fighting without fighting..

I guess that depends on your beliefs - whether you think it's un-winnable...

 

[Swaayze]

Lear70,

Like I said, not into p'ing contests and not sure why you seem so vehement against me. I merely posted the info I had regarding the agreement you spoke against, proving that it was better than what is currently on property. Is it perfect? Of course not.

Thanks for whatever work you've done to improve FTDT regs.

Regards

 

[Lear70]

Don't get me wrong, Swaayze, I'm not against YOU at all. Just the idea that the proposed rest minimums are somehow "desirable". A proposal like that here would be gaining my No vote, but I'm kind of a stickler when it comes to rest. I need my beauty sleep... OK, scratch that. I just need sleep.

Thanks for posting the clarification; I think it's GREAT to see contract proposals from other carriers out there so we can look out for certain things in our own contracts. Makes for great debate, as well...

:beer:

 

[Lear70]

Hey Rez (and others),

Got a response back from the NPA BOD today. Great news, they're in favor of participating jointly with ALPA for this event.

Hi Rich,

5 out of 6 BoD members have already replied to support attending this rally. I believe the 6th is only out of pocket due to flying his regular schedule. So the effort to facilitate a group of pilots to attend is a definite “Go.”

Our P2P Chairman will be briefing the P2Ps in their regular phone conference this Thursday which will hopefully create a buzz on the line. Our Strategic Planning Chairman, has been briefed as well and is happy to help coordinate. I’ve also contacted my cohort with ALPA and she’s thrilled you launched a group effort.

Thanks again, Rich. This will make a great show of general pilot unity. Nice work.

Hopefully this will be received well on the line and we'll have a good turnout.


If you buy first round, I've got the 2nd. :beer:

 

[HelloNewman]

Oh this is hilarious! Trying to open the contract before it even expires? LOL get real they have enough of a hard time getting contracts done within two years of the amendable date. I was laughing my ass off when I read that.