Pilot uniforms at VA and Skybus

[CA1900]

These VA and SBus uniforms must be terrible as none of these pilots are defending themselves here.

Oh, they will, it's just gonna take a while. They can only afford dial-up on those salaries, and with all the ads here, the thread takes a couple weeks to load...

 

[Captain Morgan]

Look, guys... I'm not trying to sound like a jerk and I'm not trying to be an a** towards you Box Hauler. Lord knows there's times that I think, "to he11 with this uniform it's so impractical!" I've flown freight and worn khaki shorts and a polo shirt with tennis shoes. That was fun, but that was different. It was freight in a Cessna 310 with no crew and no need for epaulets and a tie. I was flying all over the south and my nice white shirt would've been yellow after about one week. All I'm trying to say is what skiandsurf said. Mgmnt would love us to be degraded and made "just like everyone else" because then they can break our spirit and pay us even less. One of the reasons the uniform was donned along time ago was to instill professionalism and confidence in our abilities to the passengers. Unfortunately there are those out there that feel that they can pick up chicks and act like a tough guy because they have some cheap fabric stripes on their shoulder. Fly safe all!

CM

 

[Box-Hauler]

I don't get an ego boost, I just believe in tradition. Do you feel that Police Officers, Fire Fighters or Medical Personnel have egos because they wear "costumes?" BTW box-hauler, if you think of yourself as a truck driver then you'll be treated like one. Here's the website for you: www.truckschool.com. Maybe you'll fit in better there?

CM

Captn,

No offense taken, but to answer your question. Cops were a uniform to let people know who they are. Also they carry lots of stuff, gun, cuffs, tazer. Firefighters are even more specialized, fireproof suites, O2 tanks, special gear, radios, on and on. Medical personnel, blood spurting everywhere, bodily fluids, on and on. They turn in the scrubs at the end of the shift. How do these jobs compare with walking onto a plane where you are "locked" in the front until you reach your destination. I do not get it.

Compare that to a pilot, no special tools, no need for protective clothing, fireproof or bullet proof, and for security it might be better if terrorist did not know who the crew was.

You did not clarify why you think wearing stripes and a tie make someone a better pilot. I can see your point on looking professional but we could do that in a business suite without all the "bling, bling" that so many pilot uniforms have. Just look at corporate aviation, lots of guys don't wear the "traditional" pilot uniform and they get along nicely.

Tradition if fine but why beat down a startup company trying something different. Yes Skybus and VA pay is low. Most start ups are. Southwest had low pay but now everyone wants to work there. Is VA the next Southwest, who knows, but I don't think I would bet against Branson as a business man.

As for truck drivers they have better duty time requirement than pilots for work rules so yeah if they will pay me what I make now I would gladly drive a big rig.....

 

[Captain Morgan]

Our uniforms are used for professional status. A way of identifying us as pilots. I don't know about you but I did work hard to wear that uniform that everybody universally identifies as a pilots'. I worked for a police department, I wore a polo and shorts on bike detail with the word "police" on the back. Half the time people thought we were bike messengers believe it or not. Have you ever worn a police uniform or a pair of fireman's class A uniforms? It's not exactly built for running, climbing, and getting in and out of cars or off and on bikes. It's made out of polyester just like the ones we wear. They could've easily made a uniform out of khaki's and polo shirts and printed "police" on the back. The ones they wear now are classic and universally identified as being a law enforcement uniform. On a funny note, my wife is a nurse and she wears scrubs. She is pregnant so she can't wear the scrub top unless she gets maternity or an XL so she just wore a long sleeve shirt top of neutral color and scrub bottoms. She was "talked" to today about her not having scrub tops on. Seems no one is happy in any sector about what anyone has to wear and it isn't exclusively the pilots. I guess we should all put this in perspective and admit to ourselves that we have pretty cool jobs and we should keep priorities in check. Fly safe all!

CM

 

[ableone]

Anybody have a picture of this VA/Startrek hybrid pilot uniform?

 

[PCL_128]

I am still wondering why the heck I have to wear epilates.

What the hell is an "epilates?"

A polo shirt with some dockers is the standard dress code at many places of business today.

Yes, and many companies after years of allowing this business-casual attire are now going back to more formal business clothing because they've found in study after study that worker productivity goes down when they dress casually.

As for a seniority identifier, who cares. Do you treat someone differently because they were 3 tripes instead of 4.

Gate agents, stews, rampers, etc... need to be able to identify who is "in charge." The stripes allow the other employees to easily identify the chain of command if they need info or if they need someone to make a decision.

and did very little other than to identify the crew to the PAX in the terminal. I guess that was so I could answer their questions about why the plane they are on is delayed or how to get to gate 37.

Don't you think it might help during an emergency evacuation for the passengers to be able to easily identify who is in charge of the situation? Kind of hard to do if the Captain is wearing the same polo and khakis that many of the pax are wearing. It's not all about "which gate is flight 69 leaving from?"

Find me a company that pays like UPS/FedEx and will let me wear a uniform like a Southwest flight attendants and I am there.....

SWA stews look like camp counselors. No thanks.

 

[skiandsurf]

Don't you think it might help during an emergency evacuation for the passengers to be able to easily identify who is in charge of the situation? Kind of hard to do if the Captain is wearing the same polo and khakis that many of the pax are wearing. It's not all about "which gate is flight 69 leaving from?"

I heard that one of the low cost carriers of the 70s or 80s actually had pilot uniforms that were polo type shirts, and the FAA made them change due to the "recognizable in an emergency situation". (think it was Peoples Express).

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Why not wear generic polo shirts with the word "PILOT" written on the back (like bicycle cops)?

When a pilot walks up to the gate and the pax are sitting there, they look the pilot up and down. AND THEY ARE JUDGING!

We work at the airport "everyday" so what is so normal to us is not in the least with the pax.

I recently talked to a colleague at a major...he spoke of a pilot at his old regional that wanted a recommnedation... The colleague recalled how the guy looked sloppy in uniform.... sorry..not a good match at the major airline.

Uniform "issues" are not a concern for professionals. They don't debate the uniform, they don't try and "get away" with loose criteria. Polar Tec fleece is NOT a uniform item.

Let's talk about the image. It seems when pilots want a pay raise they all show up to picket... "hey..look at me (us)! We are professionals, we deserve more pay" However, the next day, its back to the polar tec fleece. So which is it? I think everyday is a good day to show professionalism.

A few weeks ago I was in the uniform shop at a major where hats are optional. And I asked...when are pilots buying hats? Upgrade and family photos. Interesting.....

 

[Box-Hauler]

PCL,

You missed the beginning of the thread. People were bitching about Skybus and VA uniforms. I simply was bringing up a few alternatives to the "traditional" uniform.

As for your responses to my questions. When was the last time the pilots were responsible for an emergency evac, shouldn't they be securing the plane, talking with ground, and co-ordinating everything while the F/A's handle the actual task of evacuations. I was told that that is what they are there for.

Your opinion that the ground crew needs to be able to identify who is in charge by the stripes is a plausible answer. Not a good one when you consider no one else wears these type of markers and all the rampers, MX, and gate agents are able to find out who is in charge when a question comes up.

Silly me, I alway assumed they would just ask the guy in the left seat, he is usually the guy in charge.

I did notice you conveniently left out my quote of terrorist being able to identify the crew. In this day and age should that not be the main concern. Most of your responses are null and void when you consider the fact that the crew is locked in the front for the whole flight. No need to impress the PAX when they cannot come up for a visit or even see up front except when loading.

Last but not least please forgive my inability to type, (Epaulets) as you can see by my bio I fly a plane that requires no typing skills, only stick and rudder skills........

 

[Box-Hauler]

Captn Morgan,

Point taken on the cool job part, I do love my job but the uniform issue is a topic that seems to p1ss everyone off. Not sure why, or maybe it is Skybus / VA that just gets peoples panties in a bunch.

I do agree with the class A's for firemen but the department by me only wears those for parades, for real fires they jump into the cool looking fire suite with the helmet and tank wearing whatever they got on.

Now if I could wear scrubs while driving the diesel every night we might be onto something.......maybe I should call the union............

 

[PCL_128]

You missed the beginning of the thread. People were bitching about Skybus and VA uniforms. I simply was bringing up a few alternatives to the "traditional" uniform.

I read the beginning. There's no reason to be looking for alternatives to tradition because the tradition works just fine and it's exactly what the pax want to see.

As for your responses to my questions. When was the last time the pilots were responsible for an emergency evac, shouldn't they be securing the plane, talking with ground, and co-ordinating everything while the F/A's handle the actual task of evacuations. I was told that that is what they are there for.

At every company I've worked at (3 different pax airlines) the FO was responsible for a few short items on the evac check, and then he ran back to deal with the evacuation. The Captain followed after he was done and took charge. The FAs are there to lead the initial evacuation, but the Captain is always ultimately in command of the situation.

Your opinion that the ground crew needs to be able to identify who is in charge by the stripes is a plausible answer. Not a good one when you consider no one else wears these type of markers and all the rampers, MX, and gate agents are able to find out who is in charge when a question comes up.

At a station, the rampers, agents, etc... know who their supervisors are because they work with them on a daily basis and report directly to them. Major carriers (and even large regionals) have thousands of Captains. Without the identifying rank markings, no one would have a clue who the Captain was.

Silly me, I alway assumed they would just ask the guy in the left seat, he is usually the guy in charge.

We're not always sitting in our seats. We could be greeting pax, standing at the gate counter on the phone with dispatch, etc...

I did notice you conveniently left out my quote of terrorist being able to identify the crew. In this day and age should that not be the main concern.

It's a concern, but it doesn't trump all the other factors. All things being considered, it simply doesn't make sense to have pilots dressed as average Joes.

Most of your responses are null and void when you consider the fact that the crew is locked in the front for the whole flight. No need to impress the PAX when they cannot come up for a visit or even see up front except when loading.

When pilots walk up to the gate, the pax are measuring you up and developing an impression of you. Make no mistake about it, your professionalism is judged by the pax in a split second based on your initial appearance to them. They may only see you for a few minutes before and after the flight, but in those few minutes you are a representative of the carrier and of the profession. You should have the traditional and professional appearance that the pax have come to expect.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

You missed the beginning of the thread. People were bitching about Skybus and VA uniforms. I simply was bringing up a few alternatives to the "traditional" uniform.

Alternatives to traditional? That wouldn't be traditional, that would be contemperary (sp) or progressive...

As for your responses to my questions. When was the last time the pilots were responsible for an emergency evac, shouldn't they be securing the plane, talking with ground, and co-ordinating everything while the F/A's handle the actual task of evacuations. I was told that that is what they are there for.

Well, if they are to coordinate then sholuldn't the coordinator be identifed? I think if a plane ful of pax evacuated out onto the taxiway they are going to look for direction and security....

Your opinion that the ground crew needs to be able to identify who is in charge by the stripes is a plausible answer. Not a good one when you consider no one else wears these type of markers and all the rampers, MX, and gate agents are able to find out who is in charge when a question comes up.

Not when a pilot is out of the seat. Ask a female pilot how she is identified as an FA! Even with four stripes...

Silly me, I alway assumed they would just ask the guy in the left seat, he is usually the guy in charge.

yes..... silly you....

I did notice you conveniently left out my quote of terrorist being able to identify the crew. In this day and age should that not be the main concern. Most of your responses are null and void when you consider the fact that the crew is locked in the front for the whole flight. No need to impress the PAX when they cannot come up for a visit or even see up front except when loading.

Pretty far fetched...as the terrorist rush the flightdeck, the uniformed pilot gets shot....

Last but not least please forgive my inability to type, (Epaulets) as you can see by my bio I fly a plane that requires no typing skills, only stick and rudder skills........

And human factors skills.... even for box haulers

Now if I could wear scrubs while driving the diesel every night we might be onto something.......maybe I should call the union............

Union? Air Line Pilots Do Not Run Airlines... Call your Chief Pilot...

 

[Box-Hauler]

I read the beginning. There's no reason to be looking for alternatives to tradition because the tradition works just fine and it's exactly what the pax want to see.



At every company I've worked at (3 different pax airlines) the FO was responsible for a few short items on the evac check, and then he ran back to deal with the evacuation. The Captain followed after he was done and took charge. The FAs are there to lead the initial evacuation, but the Captain is always ultimately in command of the situation.



At a station, the rampers, agents, etc... know who their supervisors are because they work with them on a daily basis and report directly to them. Major carriers (and even large regionals) have thousands of Captains. Without the identifying rank markings, no one would have a clue who the Captain was.



We're not always sitting in our seats. We could be greeting pax, standing at the gate counter on the phone with dispatch, etc...



It's a concern, but it doesn't trump all the other factors. All things being considered, it simply doesn't make sense to have pilots dressed as average Joes.



When pilots walk up to the gate, the pax are measuring you up and developing an impression of you. Make no mistake about it, your professionalism is judged by the pax in a split second based on your initial appearance to them. They may only see you for a few minutes before and after the flight, but in those few minutes you are a representative of the carrier and of the profession. You should have the traditional and professional appearance that the pax have come to expect.

To believe that the PAX care about the crew and how profesional they look is a joke. Why do you think there is a Skybus or VA, PAX care about $$$$. The ticket price is 5 bucks less to FLL so they will go with that airline. I assume by the 717 that you fly that that you work for Airtran (good company and thanks for the many rides). They are a discount airline (god love them) and most people who fly on them do it for price.

The glory days of aviation are dead and gone (I wil miss them). Most PAX do not care about the "dress code" of the guys up front. If they were concerned with profesionalism and experience there would be no commuters hiring with 200 hrs. Price trumps all for the PAX industry. I do agree that a neat appearance is important when representing your company, but the traditional uniform is not a "needed" item. Again back to the original thread, Skybus and VA are doing something different with the uniforms, this does not make them any less professional or qualified and I bet there seats are full in the back even though they are wearing a polo shirt.

Thanks for the counterpoints PCL_128, you made some good arguments for my questions:beer:

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Box-

Look at the May SWA Timetable.... on the cover are two SWA pilots.....with hats... everytime any oganization wants to use the image of a pilot to promote thier product or service.... they use a sharp dressed pilot.... with hats....

Uniform, behavior and attitude is the only image we have as pilots.... to promote our professionalism...

 

[PCL_128]

To believe that the PAX care about the crew and how profesional they look is a joke. Why do you think there is a Skybus or VA, PAX care about $$$$.

Pax want to have their cake and eat it too. They want to pay dirt-cheap prices, but they also demand professional pilots. I think you're way off base thinking that the passengers don't pay attention to the appearance and behavior of their pilots.