Pilot shortage?????

[flyburg]

So these foreigners would need extensive background and PRIA type checks to work for a US based airline, but does anyone have any idea what background checks are required for a pilot working for a foreign airline that flies into the US and all over the US airspace? A huge double standard! I think it's a huge security threat to this country to let all these foreign airliners staffed by pilots who they know absolutely nothing about.

Wow, that's a hugely xenofobic post!!

But to give you an insight, the US government has long required all foreign airlines flying into and over their territory to submit a master crewlist. Even for crews not actually flying equipment that flies over or into their territory! What the US does with that list I don't know but since THEY require that I assume something! I seriously doubt that my country requires a master crewlist of each US airline that flies over the Netherlands! Speaking of a double standard?

Being a pilot at KLM I am subject to a security background every 5 years!!!

Finally, just being transitioned to an aircraft that flies to the US(747), I had to complete an quite extensive online crewvisa application, took me several hours(went back to elementary school and upwards each and every school and job!!!), and then a visit to the US consulate, had to hand in my passport for several days!!

The US has either bilateral agreements or open skies agreements with each country allowed to fly to the US or vice versa. The applicable countries(read US) will determine the safety risks involved and take appropriate action(read: not allowed into the US)!!

The Dutch background check is quit extensive, if that is not good enough for the US it is in their ballpark I submit!!! Maybe some time for reciprocatry?

 

[27 driver]

Wow, that's a hugely xenofobic post!!

But to give you an insight, the US government has long required all foreign airlines flying into and over their territory to submit a master crewlist. Even for crews not actually flying equipment that flies over or into their territory! What the US does with that list I don't know but since THEY require that I assume something! I seriously doubt that my country requires a master crewlist of each US airline that flies over the Netherlands! Speaking of a double standard?

Being a pilot at KLM I am subject to a security background every 5 years!!!

Finally, just being transitioned to an aircraft that flies to the US(747), I had to complete an quite extensive online crewvisa application, took me several hours(went back to elementary school and upwards each and every school and job!!!), and then a visit to the US consulate, had to hand in my passport for several days!!

The US has either bilateral agreements or open skies agreements with each country allowed to fly to the US or vice versa. The applicable countries(read US) will determine the safety risks involved and take appropriate action(read: not allowed into the US)!!

The Dutch background check is quit extensive, if that is not good enough for the US it is in their ballpark I submit!!! Maybe some time for reciprocatry?

I don't believe it was the European countries he was referring too.

 

[Jetjockey]

China and India already have abinitio programs with American expat pilots doing the training. There are many American direct hire captains flying contract work in these places training young pilots that have gone through airline sponsored training programs and are now in the right seat of A320's or 737's with 300 hrs. We are training our own replacement pilots. You have to love the irony. Oh ya, if you think that these pilots won't be able to get clearance to fly in the US you are sadly mistaken. We give terrorists visa's every day. Open sky agreements are on the way.

Winner, winner, chicken dinner. Open skies and cabotage will signal the end for US pilots. We will be as common as US ship captains in US ports, or around the world for that matter.

I just hope I can squeak another 15 years out of this career. I'm doubtful.

 

[say again]

CHINA has tough background checks???

Seems like there was a story not too far back finding a huge percentage of Chinese pilots had falsified licenses, logbooks, and/or medicals.

I was thinking the same thing. India also has the same issues going on over there.

 

[pipejockey]

Wow, that's a hugely xenofobic post!!

I don't know what xenofobic means but if you mean xenophobic, I must totally disagree with you as I don't have an intense or irrational dislike or fear of people from other countries. What I do have a RATIONAL fear of are the likes of pilots such as many at some Indian or Chinese airlines who have totally fabricated their backgrounds, flying airliners in and over my country after seeing what can happen when control of said airliners is put in the control of people who wish us harm. It is not the harmless Dutch that are the target of terrorists all over the world, it is ME and my fellow Americans. And we ought to d*mn well know the people who are flying 800,000 pound, or 363,000 Kilos for you Dutch people (oh sorry, was that a xenophobic statement?) airliners over our cities. We have learned that the hard way!

Being a pilot at KLM I am subject to a security background every 5 years!!!
Finally, just being transitioned to an aircraft that flies to the US(747), I had to complete an quite extensive online crewvisa application, took me several hours(went back to elementary school and upwards each and every school and job!!!), and then a visit to the US consulate, had to hand in my passport for several days!!

My heart goes out to you.

The Dutch background check is quit extensive, if that is not good enough for the US it is in their ballpark I submit!!! Maybe some time for reciprocatry?

I'm sure it is quitE extensive as it should be, so is ours! And once again, it is not the little harmless Netherlands that are the target of terrorists, it is the good ole USA! We have a very good reason for requiring the crew visa application you filled out. If your country decided to engage in some reciprocatry, or reciprocity as it were, it would be purely out of spite, a tit for tat sort of thing, not because your country felt it was necessary. Remember, many of the terrorists who attacked us came here through European countries. The terrorists that engage in attacks on other countries don't come through the USA. Something to think about!

 

[pipejockey]

case in point...



http://www.kosmix.com/topic/fake_pilot_license_india


http://www.google.com/search?client...a+pilots+faking+backgrounds&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8

http://www.naharnet.com/domino/tn/NewsDesk.nsf/getstory?openform&9AB3716E8BB25F77C22572F40035993D

http://www.theepochtimes.com/n2/content/view/42388/

And the list goes on and on and on!

All it takes is one to knock down another one of our buildings, and the threat is no longer with US based airlines it is with the foreign airlines that come streaming into our country everyday being flown by the likes of the people described in the above links. Who here doesn't think al qaeda is patient enough to put terrorists through actual pilot training and ultimately employed by the likes of an Emirates, or Etihad and then one day get them paired together on a trip and we have a 9-11 all over again. And if anyone thinks I'm being paranoid, well ask the folks who alerted the FBI about the exact scenario that occurred on 9-11 and listen to them tell you how their concerns were summarily dismissed and considered paranoid.

 

[nwa747]

. And if anyone thinks I'm being paranoid, well ask the folks who alerted the FBI about the exact scenario that occurred on 9-11 and listen to them tell you how their concerns were summarily dismissed and considered paranoid.

We were one if them. No crime was committed was the answer we received from the local FBI field office.

 

[livin'thesim]

Chinese economic policy may work some wonders, but makes mistakes in other areas:

http://globaleconomicanalysis.blogspot.com/2011/03/worlds-biggest-property-bubble-chinas.html

The big thing to remember about China is that despite some halting nods toward free-market operations, the reality is that they are still (at present) more or less a command economy.

While command economies can do marvelous things, they tend to be rigid in their views. Since infrastructure and economic development are centrally planned, rather than grown organically through actual market need, you are not going to get the same results as in a more-free economy like in the US.

The Chinese government has a way of trying to force things into existence. This seldom works as well as people think.

The Chinese MAY eventually dominate the global economy, but it will not happen overnight.

 

[Cobraair75drvr]

Maybe if we would butt the F out of other peoples business we would not have these problems.

I don't know what xenofobic means but if you mean xenophobic, I must totally disagree with you as I don't have an intense or irrational dislike or fear of people from other countries. What I do have a RATIONAL fear of are the likes of pilots such as many at some Indian or Chinese airlines who have totally fabricated their backgrounds, flying airliners in and over my country after seeing what can happen when control of said airliners is put in the control of people who wish us harm. It is not the harmless Dutch that are the target of terrorists all over the world, it is ME and my fellow Americans. And we ought to d*mn well know the people who are flying 800,000 pound, or 363,000 Kilos for you Dutch people (oh sorry, was that a xenophobic statement?) airliners over our cities. We have learned that the hard way!



My heart goes out to you.



I'm sure it is quitE extensive as it should be, so is ours! And once again, it is not the little harmless Netherlands that are the target of terrorists, it is the good ole USA! We have a very good reason for requiring the crew visa application you filled out. If your country decided to engage in some reciprocatry, or reciprocity as it were, it would be purely out of spite, a tit for tat sort of thing, not because your country felt it was necessary. Remember, many of the terrorists who attacked us came here through European countries. The terrorists that engage in attacks on other countries don't come through the USA. Something to think about!

 

[thunderworm]

Don't forget we have regional pilots because the mainline guys did not want those little T-prop pilots on their seniority list. If far thinking pilots at the majors had said sure come board, sure you will start a dirt wages, but in 5 years you be making good money as a 73 F/O we would not have this problem. Look at Comair, they raised their costs to the mainline in order to pay the pilots, so flying get set someplace else to keep the wages at the mainline. This is not so much a management problem as it is a senior pilots protecting themselves at the expense of the junior pilot.

This is why airlines are requiring a 4 yr. degree. I can't figure out what you were trying to say.

 

[pilotyip]

This is why airlines are requiring a 4 yr. degree. I can't figure out what you were trying to say.

do you have a 4 yaer degree? might be the prob

 

[LeonPhelps]

do you have a 4 yaer degree? might be the prob

As you can tell by my number of posts, I don't have much to say on here...just more of a reader. Nevertheless, it stands out that you constantly have something to say/have a chip on your shoulder about a college degree. Not flaming, just curious...what gives?

Cheers...

 

[HA25]

there will NEVER be a shortage of good pilot jobs (read Majors, Legacies).. the shortage will only exist at the $14,000/yr regional jobs. Don't bank on a shortage... and this new FAA NPRM for rest rules is only going to make it worse, with longer flight hour limits, and slim requirements for augmented crews for long haul.

 

[pilotyip]

As you can tell by my number of posts, I don't have much to say on here...just more of a reader. Nevertheless, it stands out that you constantly have something to say/have a chip on your shoulder about a college degree. Not flaming, just curious...what gives?

Cheers...

goes back a long way, maybe 2000 on the ole FI, my stance is a college degree has nothing to do with flying an airplane. Kinda a trademark. It is my duty to counter the constant barrage of "You must go to college to be a pilot". So any chance I see to comment on the 4 yr degree, it is my duty to take stance. I have flown with too many non-degreed guys who were superior to their degreed counterparts, I have flown with pilots who got their degrees while working with me, I saw no change in their ability. Yes I know you must have one to get an interview at maany places, because of the HR club. The highest paid people in my family do not have 4 yr degrees, the lowest paid people in my family have 4 yr degrees. BTW I have 4 year degree, and Master's.

 

[dillfer]

goes back a long way, maybe 2000 on the ole FI, my stance is a college degree has nothing to do with flying an airplane. Kinda a trademark. It is my duty to counter the constant barrage of "You must go to college to be a pilot". So any chance I see to comment on the 4 yr degree, it is my duty to take stance. I have flown with too many non-degreed guys who were superior to their degreed counterparts, I have flown with pilots who got their degrees while working with me, I saw no change in their ability. Yes I know you must have one to get an interview at maany places, because of the HR club. The highest paid people in my family do not have 4 yr degrees, the lowest paid people in my family have 4 yr degrees. BTW I have 4 year degree, and Master's.

Just a way to thin out the resume's. Can't imagine that many people would argue that you have to have a 4 year degree to fly.

 

[tankerhead]

Everyone knows that college kids can drink more and hold their alcohol better than their H.S. counterparts. You don't wanna layover with an amateur, do you?

 

[inline]

goes back a long way, maybe 2000 on the ole FI, my stance is a college degree has nothing to do with flying an airplane. Kinda a trademark. It is my duty to counter the constant barrage of "You must go to college to be a pilot". So any chance I see to comment on the 4 yr degree, it is my duty to take stance. I have flown with too many non-degreed guys who were superior to their degreed counterparts, I have flown with pilots who got their degrees while working with me, I saw no change in their ability. Yes I know you must have one to get an interview at maany places, because of the HR club. The highest paid people in my family do not have 4 yr degrees, the lowest paid people in my family have 4 yr degrees. BTW I have 4 year degree, and Master's.

Very true. The HR snobs hold your career in their hands. What's really a travesty is a pilot with several thousand hours, maybe a few type ratings and a HS diploma having to get a degree to be competitive for a flying job. Have seen it happen. Talk about putting the cart before the horse.

 

[flyburg]

I don't know what xenofobic means but if you mean xenophobic, I must totally disagree with you as I don't have an intense or irrational dislike or fear of people from other countries. What I do have a RATIONAL fear of are the likes of pilots such as many at some Indian or Chinese airlines who have totally fabricated their backgrounds, flying airliners in and over my country after seeing what can happen when control of said airliners is put in the control of people who wish us harm. It is not the harmless Dutch that are the target of terrorists all over the world, it is ME and my fellow Americans. And we ought to d*mn well know the people who are flying 800,000 pound, or 363,000 Kilos for you Dutch people (oh sorry, was that a xenophobic statement?) airliners over our cities. We have learned that the hard way!



My heart goes out to you.



I'm sure it is quitE extensive as it should be, so is ours! And once again, it is not the little harmless Netherlands that are the target of terrorists, it is the good ole USA! We have a very good reason for requiring the crew visa application you filled out. If your country decided to engage in some reciprocatry, or reciprocity as it were, it would be purely out of spite, a tit for tat sort of thing, not because your country felt it was necessary. Remember, many of the terrorists who attacked us came here through European countries. The terrorists that engage in attacks on other countries don't come through the USA. Something to think about!

My bad, and I apologise, I came on a little too strong!!

I understand the NL is not on the risk list, however, what I tried to say is that every airline flying over ot to the US has to submit a master crewlist (even the dutch) I assume the US does something with that list when it comes to risk countries! Same goes for the crew visa, I assume, mine got a cursory glance while the application from a risk country get's a more thorough check. So there is a check and I hope not a huge double standard!

When it comes to qualification requirements, that's a tough one, how do you enforce international standards?? How does one country check that the other countries pilot is qualified? However, that has nothing to do with security, that problem excisted long before 9/11.

Once again, I didn't mean to offend, just to give an insight of the requirments the US ask's of foreign pilots flying over or into the US

 

[thunderworm]

Just a way to thin out the resume's. Can't imagine that many people would argue that you have to have a 4 year degree to fly.

I agree. I have flown with many good guys that do not have a degree. I guess it just shows HR that a degree proves you have the ability to learn. I think that those who continue to go to school have a better time at learning new things like; types and new SOPs. BTW I have a masters.

 

[Emb120Trash]

For the people that don't think there is going to be a pilot shortage in the next few years, I don't think they understand the large number of baby boomers or guys between 55-65 years of age at the legacies/majors/lccs and have ran any real numbers to understand what is about to happen. In a few short years, American, Alaska, Ual/Cal, Airways, Southwest, Delta are going to have 2,000-3,000 pilots retiring annually for many years. If you take all the captains that are actually interested in moving on from the regionals like ASA, Eagle, SkyWest, Chataqua, Republic, Shuttle, Comair, Expressjet, Pinnacle, Transtates, Mesaba, Colgan, Commutair, Mesa, Great Lakes you may have 10,000 pilots. I know there are corporate and military pilots here as well, but it won't change the numbers that much. Without any growth, that leaves 3-4 years before the pool of qualified captains is drained. Take into consideration that not many people are all that interested in entering this profession and in the very near future both the regionals and legacies/majors/lccs/cargo will be crapping in there pants and we will finally see the pilot shortage that Kit Darby has been talking about for the last 30 years..HA! and I can't wait.