Pilot shortage solved

[xray678]

I predict the governments answer to this problem will be raising the retirement age. Short sighted though. With movement finally hitting the majors, I suspect a pilot career is looking better to college age kids. I think the five year stagnation caused by age 65 is one of the big reasons for a shortage today.

 

[atpcliff]

Raising the retirement age now, will only be a band-aid. There are already a lot of guys medicalling out. Getting rid of the limit, or raising it to 70, will just allow some guys to fly longer, and won't affect the long-term shortage in any meaningful way...it will just make it less painful for a couple of years.

 

[General Lee]

I predict the governments answer to this problem will be raising the retirement age. Short sighted though. With movement finally hitting the majors, I suspect a pilot career is looking better to college age kids. I think the five year stagnation caused by age 65 is one of the big reasons for a shortage today.

Nah, every time there is a divert due to a heart attack among the crew (2 at United (actually Ex CAL 737s)), there is another nail in the over age 65 casket. Plus, the families of the Colgan crash victims have turned into a very powerful lobby group (The Regional Airline Association couldn't win a fight against them on the new fatigue and hiring rules), and they will fight anything that isn't safe in our industry. The Congressmen and Senators would never go up against safety, that would give their future opponents great ammo for TV commercials.

Nah, I don't think they'll try it. But, Canada has, and their rule is at 65 the Captains have to go to either narrowbody FO or Widebody cruise officer (no takeoffs or landings), and that does preserve upgrades but could stunt hiring a bit.


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[xjhawk]

Going to hire a 100 a month in June and July at DAL.

They announced only 5 a month will be taken from the pool of successful interview Endeavor Air pilots. The min per month they are suppose to be taking this year is 12 and I think 15 next year but they have a "look back clause" that they can under hire and "fix" the problem the following year. With the new (idiotic spit in the face) ETD program, 35% or 300 whichever is less a year is the new number of Endeavor pilots suppose to be in class at Delta-but I am sure that has a look back provision as well. In the real world, they can make it 5 a month all year long, then Jan of every year say they will hire more to make up the difference. I am sure there are more legal loop holes than is advertised to not take the promised amount and keep Endeavor staffed since they cannot hire to staff.

Speaking of hiring, at recent job fairs Endeavor Air was handing out flyers that all but promised a Delta interview in 3 years but yet they still only got a couple people stop by their booth. Speaking of attrition, before the ETD was announced, our attrition for the month of may was over 40 pilots, 5 of which I think went to Delta if I remember correctly. About 1/2 were first officers. So that attrition is that high even with only 5 a month going to delta, imagine if Delta allowed the promised high of 25 a month to go to class at Delta? At it sits, Delta also has two classes of Delta seniority list pilots still flying at Delta, being held back to keep Endeavor air staffed. Because they cannot hire to keep up with attrition. Endeavor Air is also DOWN GRADING CAPTAINS while displacing a lot of pilots to new york bases. The fact that any new new hire will have to keep a spotless record to keep the Delta flow and must be a captain for 2 years after waiting for all the current FO's to upgrade (did I mention we are downgrading and have 7 year FO's).

So to summarize if you are a prospective new hire at Endeavor, lets just say we will have to hire more than 50 a month just to replace current attrition in order to upgrade and stop parking planes. While you wait for the 850 first officers here to upgrade (as is one of the provisions of the new hire deal), you as a new hire will have to live off our Endeavor pay-which unless you have a rich family or a well paid spouse, good luck! so if we upgrade over 20 a month (remember we are downgrading now), in 4 years you will have your shot at an upgrade-then another 2 years for your Delta job. Welcome aboard! Don't forget to set two alarms at all times and don't make a flight late otherwise you will get your Delta job delayed for 18 months while you wait for your strike letter pulled from your file!

 

[General Lee]

They announced only 5 a month will be taken from the pool of successful interview Endeavor Air pilots. The min per month they are suppose to be taking this year is 12 and I think 15 next year but they have a "look back clause" that they can under hire and "fix" the problem the following year. With the new (idiotic spit in the face) ETD program, 35% or 300 whichever is less a year is the new number of Endeavor pilots suppose to be in class at Delta-but I am sure that has a look back provision as well. In the real world, they can make it 5 a month all year long, then Jan of every year say they will hire more to make up the difference. I am sure there are more legal loop holes than is advertised to not take the promised amount and keep Endeavor staffed since they cannot hire to staff.

Speaking of hiring, at recent job fairs Endeavor Air was handing out flyers that all but promised a Delta interview in 3 years but yet they still only got a couple people stop by their booth. Speaking of attrition, before the ETD was announced, our attrition for the month of may was over 40 pilots, 5 of which I think went to Delta if I remember correctly. About 1/2 were first officers. So that attrition is that high even with only 5 a month going to delta, imagine if Delta allowed the promised high of 25 a month to go to class at Delta? At it sits, Delta also has two classes of Delta seniority list pilots still flying at Delta, being held back to keep Endeavor air staffed. Because they cannot hire to keep up with attrition. Endeavor Air is also DOWN GRADING CAPTAINS while displacing a lot of pilots to new york bases. The fact that any new new hire will have to keep a spotless record to keep the Delta flow and must be a captain for 2 years after waiting for all the current FO's to upgrade (did I mention we are downgrading and have 7 year FO's).

So to summarize if you are a prospective new hire at Endeavor, lets just say we will have to hire more than 50 a month just to replace current attrition in order to upgrade and stop parking planes. While you wait for the 850 first officers here to upgrade (as is one of the provisions of the new hire deal), you as a new hire will have to live off our Endeavor pay-which unless you have a rich family or a well paid spouse, good luck! so if we upgrade over 20 a month (remember we are downgrading now), in 4 years you will have your shot at an upgrade-then another 2 years for your Delta job. Welcome aboard! Don't forget to set two alarms at all times and don't make a flight late otherwise you will get your Delta job delayed for 18 months while you wait for your strike letter pulled from your file!

That sounds............horrible. I hope you get out soon, too. Hopefully somewhere better.


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[livin'thesim]

That flow opportunity is sounding more and more like an offer in name only.

 

[BILL LUMBERG]

XJ....it's not a great deal but the more you post, the more I wonder if you really feel Delta OWES you a job? Serious question.

You can straight up apply instead of waiting for your number to be called....it's that simple. Everybody is hiring, do you have your apps out for others?

 

[waveflyer]

IMO, you owe every express pilot an opportunity at a new job where delta flies RJs and your jets are part of your fleet.
Novel idea I know.
Time for this 25 year circus act to end

 

[BILL LUMBERG]

Why wave?

Because he applied to the "circus" knowing full well he is a feed to a mainline? God, what a deal that would be.

"Hey, I got hours and PIC from Delta's weak scope clause and oh yeah, I deserve a job there too!"

I get it, pilots are frustrated by the flow agreement after bankruptcy....get in line, we all took cuts....just at different times during the last decade.

 

[atpcliff]

The age limit will be removed, but it won't make a lot of difference, because medicals will be strengthened, so more under 65 guys will fail the medical, thus making up most of the difference for the over 65 guys staying in the cockpit.

 

[jonjuan]

IMO, you owe every express pilot an opportunity at a new job where delta flies RJs and your jets are part of your fleet.
Novel idea I know.
Time for this 25 year circus act to end

Why? It's free training. Where else is someone gonna get trained for the big leagues?

 

[wms]

Roger Cohen, is that you?

 

[jynxyjericho]

XJ....it's not a great deal but the more you post, the more I wonder if you really feel Delta OWES you a job? Serious question.

You can straight up apply instead of waiting for your number to be called....it's that simple. Everybody is hiring, do you have your apps out for others?

Most Endeavor guys feel like they are owed a fair shot. Endeavor management may disagree with the pilot group on what a fair shot is, that's fine. However, our VP of ops (delta guy) admitted the SSP wasn't working when pressed, PR has been lying about the SSP pass rate by calling all the "no, come back next year" as a yes and admits as much.

By the way, many are hiring, I was able to leave, and so will most of the seniority list if offered, which leaves a 160million dollar investment failing for Delta which effects Delta employee profit sharing. Endeavor pilots, those that remain, get none of that. If a captain for endeavor has a better chance at getting hired a year from now anywhere (in cumilative) compared to Delta (by itself) and new hires can't be found to replace them, this is a pile of money that was just set on fire.

Not my problem anymore, so discount if you wish.

 

[BILL LUMBERG]

Most Endeavor guys feel like they are owed a fair shot. Endeavor management may disagree with the pilot group on what a fair shot is, that's fine. However, our VP of ops (delta guy) admitted the SSP wasn't working when pressed, PR has been lying about the SSP pass rate by calling all the "no, come back next year" as a yes and admits as much.

By the way, many are hiring, I was able to leave, and so will most of the seniority list if offered, which leaves a 160million dollar investment failing for Delta which effects Delta employee profit sharing. Endeavor pilots, those that remain, get none of that. If a captain for endeavor has a better chance at getting hired a year from now anywhere (in cumilative) compared to Delta (by itself) and new hires can't be found to replace them, this is a pile of money that was just set on fire.

Not my problem anymore, so discount if you wish.

No discount here, I agree, every Endeavour pilot deserves a fair shot. They fly our people, they took a hard gunshot in bankruptcy and should be given a chance.

Delta looks at it like "hey, if we hire them , we have to train two people because we are emptying our own cupboard of cheap labor!" It's wrong, but it's business.

That was a bankruptcy gun put to the head and they asked if they would rather just pull the trigger themselves by voting yes. I was skeptical myself whenI heard of that plan.

So where'd you end up that it isn't your problem anymore? I hope it works for you and your family.

 

[General Lee]

The age limit will be removed, but it won't make a lot of difference, because medicals will be strengthened, so more under 65 guys will fail the medical, thus making up most of the difference for the over 65 guys staying in the cockpit.

I doubt that cliff. Every time a Capt has a heart attack inflight(2 at UAL in the last year alone---one guy died), there's another "nail in the coffin" for over age 65 flying at the airlines. Unlikely.


Bye Bye---General Lee