Pilot shortage, coming soon to an airline near you.

[pgcfii2002]

Somehow I see this turning into a PFT argument.......

 

[Way2Broke]

Xjohn, The union auto companies are getting there butts kicked by the non-union auto companies. This is primarily due to the cost advantage the non-union companies have over the union auto makers. What you call an effective union has lead to the elimination of 100,000's of UAW jobs. UAW menership peaked at over 800,000 in 1979, today it is around 400,000.

I couldn't agree more, but you can't blame it all on the union. Globalzation is part of the reason that UAW has shrunk in numbers. Just like when you call to get customer support you get someone in India following prompts on a computer screen. Business dictates going to where labor is cheap. It's capitalism, plain and simple.

 

[Smarta$$]

Xjohn, The union auto companies are getting there butts kicked by the non-union auto companies. This is primarily due to the cost advantage the non-union companies have over the union auto makers. What you call an effective union has lead to the elimination of 100,000's of UAW jobs. UAW menership peaked at over 800,000 in 1979, today it is around 400,000.

So we should all just agree to make 40% less, so that we can have job security. No thanks. The goal should not be to bring our pay down to the level of the lowest competitor. It should be to bring the bottom feed wages up to a respectable level.

Do you think CEO's are taking pay cuts for any reason, much less to compete with companies that pay sh!t.

 

[atpcliff]

Hi!

Just went to the Pinnacle site (3.3.07)
Minimums:
HS Diploma
Class I Medical
Commercial
Multi
Inst

NO mention of any hour minimums whatsoever.

cliff
YIP

PS-I know a guy, over 60, who was called to interview at Pinnacle. The kicker? He didn't ever APPLY at Pinnacle.
Another guy here in flightinfo reported they called him at 10 PM. On a SATURDAY!
I also know 2 guys who were invited to interview at Eagle, and neither one of them applied, either.

 

[CopilotDoug]

So we should all just agree to make 40% less, so that we can have job security. No thanks. The goal should not be to bring our pay down to the level of the lowest competitor. It should be to bring the bottom feed wages up to a respectable level.

Do you think CEO's are taking pay cuts for any reason, much less to compete with companies that pay sh!t.

That's what sucks. By the inherent nature of aviation...you can't outsource a job to India to fly between Chicago and LA. And with the current rules in place, we don't have to worry about cabbotage. With this kind of business "isolationism" if you will, WHY THE F\/CK ARE WE AGREEING TO ALL THESE PAYCUTS PEOPLE?!? And don't hand me that BS about "if you raise ticket prices, all the flying will go to SWA and we won't have the current number of jobs." The mis-management teams need to be held accountable. The traffic delays and congestion that have been occuring lately are totally uncalled for. Completely sold out planes sitting on the ramp for 7 hrs with passengers on board but they can't get back because there's no gate. Complete and total mismanagement

 

[TurboAWD]

Xjohn, The union auto companies are getting there butts kicked by the non-union auto companies. This is primarily due to the cost advantage the non-union companies have over the union auto makers.

Hmm, that could be a large part of it, but the managers at the big three have made more than a few huge mistakes over the last three decades.

Piss poor product development for most of that time was only one of many huge problems.

Turbo

 

[pilotyip]

Turbo, these are Detroit's problems. Because contracted low productivity and benefits costs far in excess of the non-union automakers, Detroit had to build SUV's with high profit margins in order to be profitable. With 1500-1700 per car higher costs, they could not be profitable selling smaller cars. They did not develop other products because they could not make money with their existing structure. When SUV sales fell due to high fuel costs the whole deck of cards came falling down. Every week we hear of another 10K jobs being eliminated in Detroit.

 

[bigbird]

Supply and Demand. Pay will come up. This industry is no different than others. People get jobs to make money. Sure there are some SJS and people that love flying sooo much they will fly for nothing. The current pilot shortage is due to young people realizing how difficult it is to enter this field and how it takes forever to make a good wage. They go elsewhere.

 

[YourPilotFriend]

Supply and Demand. Pay will come up. This industry is no different than others. People get jobs to make money. Sure there are some SJS and people that love flying sooo much they will fly for nothing. The current pilot shortage is due to young people realizing how difficult it is to enter this field and how it takes forever to make a good wage. They go elsewhere.

Actually, it's because training has become prohibitively expensive. It is now around $150-$200 an hr for private lessons in most places. $50,000 for a puppy mill that can only supply so many every year as well.

 

[UnstableAviator]

RAH is also experiencing a pilot shortage. The company recently lowered mins to 1000/100 and are now offering a $500 referal bonus to current pilots for recommending new hires.



As much as I oppose it, GA user fees might play a big part in restoring pilot pay in the coming years. GA user fees will further limit the amount of flight training resulting in greater pilot shortages. I'm not sure where the airlines think they'll be getting pilots from, but I'm sure they aren't looking that far into the future.

 

[YourPilotFriend]

The key will be to put controls on the ab-initio program, this is where we can take back this profession. It's going to take pilots to train pilots, if we can keep the number of incoming pilots in our favor we can get the pay back.

 

[Howard Hughes]

Mesa Air Group would like to announce new Pilot minimums of 500 hours of total time and 100 hours of multi-engine time. Mesa remains committed to our current hiring standards and looks forward to hearing from pilots who meet, come close or exceed the new minimums.

Mesa Air Group is planning on hiring approximately 600 pilots in 2007 into all equipment, CRJ, ERJ-145, DHC-8 and Beech 1900 . Pilots interested in seeking an interview should complete in full and publish their application on-line at www.airlineapps.com. If you have any questions please email [email protected].
Sincerely,
Pilot Recruiting
Mesa Airlines

 

[AirBadger]

As much as I oppose it, GA user fees might play a big part in restoring pilot pay in the coming years. GA user fees will further limit the amount of flight training resulting in greater pilot shortages. I'm not sure where the airlines think they'll be getting pilots from, but I'm sure they aren't looking that far into the future.

As a prospective professional pilot, I agree. I haven't even finished my PPL yet and if these user fees go through, depending on how bad they are a lot of people including me would have to reconsider other options. While pay definately needs to go up, I'd hate to see it come from user fees.

 

[Howard Hughes]

They are all getting desperate....expect parked planes and cancelled flights.

,

American Eagle Airlines will be conducting a Pilot Job Fair in the Chicago area on Saturday, March 10, 2007. The fair will be held at the Holiday Inn Select-O’Hare 10233 West Higgins Road, Rosemont, IL 60018. A presentation will begin at 10:00 a.m. and will be followed by prescreening interviews and the scheduling of qualified applicants to come to Dallas to complete our interview process. Please bring a resume’ or complete an application online at www.americaneaglecareers.com and bring the application with you to the job fair. American Eagle will be hiring 700 new First Officers for 2007 and has recently implemented a base guarantee program, with selection made prior to the start of training. For further information, please contact American Eagle Pilot Recruitment at [email protected].

Karen Floyd
American Eagle
Pilot Recruitment

 

[deadstick]

As much as I oppose it, GA user fees might play a big part in restoring pilot pay in the coming years. GA user fees will further limit the amount of flight training resulting in greater pilot shortages. I'm not sure where the airlines think they'll be getting pilots from, but I'm sure they aren't looking that far into the future.

Very interesting spin. I just watched the Head Fed MB on CSPAN this morning. WTF?!?! But back on point...
There are fewer students starting, fewer CFI's because the regionals are hiring, and the regional are growing. Now the price of training is going up. In the late 80's, it was $50/hr of DUAL in a 152 or $55/hr in a 172 ($35-40/hr solo). Now it up 3x. Add user fees...ouch. With that said, if LSA's, like the Cessna Sport, are integrated into mainstream training/rental fleets, the cost will come down. Time will tell.

The regionals are sucking pilots through the system and leaving a void at the CFI level. This leaves students high and dry a shortag on the supply side. So, the flights school will have to raise the pay (and price) for the CFI's in order to retain them. Again, the price of training will increase. It's a vicious cycle.

 

[tyler24]

does anyone remember sept 11th.. well were never gonna make the good pay, get it out of your f-in head and just be happy your not answer telephones or grilling burgers. im glad i fly with idiots, oh yeah the 1945 hats we wear are f-ing gay too, id much rather have spikey hair with highlights and skateboard through the terminal with my ipod, atleast i would get some softail unlike all these gay old miserable pilots i fly with

 

[Freightdog75]

Wow someone is not a happy camper...................^

 

[atpcliff]

Hi!

Tyler 24:
My buddy and I are cracking up in our crashpad.

U Da Man!!!

cliff
yip

 

[siucavflight]

does anyone remember sept 11th.. well were never gonna make the good pay, get it out of your f-in head and just be happy your not answer telephones or grilling burgers. im glad i fly with idiots, oh yeah the 1945 hats we wear are f-ing gay too, id much rather have spikey hair with highlights and skateboard through the terminal with my ipod, atleast i would get some softail unlike all these gay old miserable pilots i fly with

Post of the year right there!

 

[EHE2]

I think the drop in enrolllment in pro pilot training can also be attributed to changes in the student loan programs. In order to attend one of the puppy mills you either pay cash, or go through Sallie Mae or Keybank. These lenders finally wised up after a couple of schools closed up shop and split with the students money. I believe schools have to be title IV approved in order for these banks to lend money, which most aren't. I think a lot of the flight schools are starting to get the title IV status but it takes time. I went through Key bank a couple of years ago. I regret it everyday..

Key bank sucks!!! Just ask me, $130,000 in the hole, for a $20,000/yr job? Wow you wonder why high school grads aren't rushing for a pilot career!?!?!?