Pilot shortage, coming soon to an airline near you.

[JoeMerchant]

Toilet, I guess you are not keeping up on what is going on in Detroit, 10,000 lays next week for auto white collar at Chrysler, Ford cut 34,000 employees last, closed three factories, no the airline business is no different. The big difference is pilots when they loose their jobs go to the bottom of a seniority list at starting pay, engineers go to another job at about 80% of their former wages.

BINGO! We have a winner. Folks, we have done it to ourselves. The inability to make later moves is our biggest downfall.

 

[siucavflight]

Toilet, I guess you are not keeping up on what is going on in Detroit, 10,000 lays next week for auto white collar at Chrysler, Ford cut 34,000 employees last, closed three factories, no the airline business is no different. The big difference is pilots when they loose their jobs go to the bottom of a seniority list at starting pay, engineers go to another job at about 80% of their former wages.

What about Motorolla cutting another 3400?

 

[CopilotDoug]

The big difference is pilots when they loose their jobs go to the bottom of a seniority list at starting pay, engineers go to another job at about 80% of their former wages.

You're right YIP. That's why every blowhard out there saying you need to suck up the crappy pay and "pay your dues" ought to think twice, because nowadays no pilot is immune from taking a paycut to 19k/yr and starting over at square one. That's just job instability not even taking into account all the regulations further increase the risk of you losing your job/medical. How the heck did a job which is so highly regulated and demands unwavering consistency and skill go down the tubes?

 

[XJohXJ]

Toilet, I guess you are not keeping up on what is going on in Detroit, 10,000 lays next week for auto white collar at Chrysler, Ford cut 34,000 employees last, closed three factories, no the airline business is no different. The big difference is pilots when they loose their jobs go to the bottom of a seniority list at starting pay, engineers go to another job at about 80% of their former wages.

The other thing about auto workers: They have an effective union! Wow, imagine that....

When they get laid off, they still earn over 50% of their pay. That gives the employers an incentive to not lay them off. Also: Because of the lay-off pay, when the company really does want to thin the ranks, they offer HUGE contract buy outs to get folks off the list. Anywhere from $50,000 to $100,000+. Now, that is the work of a real union.

Now, of course, those "I've got mine" @hole pilots are going to come on here and say crap like: "Yeah, but those kind of benefits mean that overall everyone gets paid a little less (like, for example, senior captains...)"

And that's probably true, but it didn't stop the auto workers unions from negotiating it nonetheless. Why? Because the auto workers know that EVERY worker matters, and there is strength in unity. And, they still earn more than regional pilots from day one.

What does ALPA do? Sit around and figure out schemes to pay their captains a little bit more while screwing over ALPA pilots at other carriers. For just one example, look at Compass. Thanks guys!

 

[CopilotDoug]

The other thing about auto workers: They have an effective union! Wow, imagine that....

When they get laid off, they still earn over 50% of their pay. That gives the employers an incentive to not lay them off. Also: Because of the lay-off pay, when the company really does want to thin the ranks, they offer HUGE contract buy outs to get folks off the list. Anywhere from $50,000 to $100,000+. Now, that is the work of a real union.

Now, of course, those "I've got mine" @hole pilots are going to come on here and say crap like: "Yeah, but those kind of benefits mean that overall everyone gets paid a little less (like, for example, senior captains...)"

And that's probably true, but it didn't stop the auto workers unions from negotiating it nonetheless. Why? Because the auto workers know that EVERY worker matters, and there is strength in unity. And, they still earn more than regional pilots from day one.

What does ALPA do? Sit around and figure out schemes to pay their captains a little bit more while screwing over ALPA pilots at other carriers. For just one example, look at Compass. Thanks guys!

You're just selfish and greedy, XJohXJ !!! Your kind of thinking will tank your airline! You're so lucky to be a pilot and you don't realise it! Why can't people be satisified withy a fun job anymore? I forgot, it doesn't pay the bills...

 

[XJohXJ]

Yeah, I'd reply, but I'm busy ironing out my shirt and polishing my hat so I can look professional! That pay's the bills, right? (Since it's so often missed on this site: Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to sarcasm....)

What I said about the real unions out there, however, was not sarcastic.

 

[atpcliff]

Hi!

It was affecting the lower-end regionals a lot, and now it's affecting many on-demand cargo places. They have planes sitting on the ramp, with trips to fly, and a no pilots to fly them. A bunch of their pilots left, and they can't find new-hires.

I guess they'll have to raise their wages. They're trying to think of anything possible to not have to pay more money, but they're pretty much out of options.

cliff
GRB

 

[belchfire]

Hi!

It was affecting the lower-end regionals a lot, and now it's affecting many on-demand cargo places. They have planes sitting on the ramp, with trips to fly, and a no pilots to fly them. A bunch of their pilots left, and they can't find new-hires.

I guess they'll have to raise their wages. They're trying to think of anything possible to not have to pay more money, but they're pretty much out of options.

cliff
GRB

The rest of the airlines will catch on when Mesa, Go Jets, TSA and the rest can't cover trips cause they can't fill classes cause the word has finally gotten out that "This ain't your daddy's airline job".

Do you think anyone would spend $100K on dentist school to work for $19k/yr?

What a fracked up business...

 

[pilotyip]

What do you mean can't find new hires? Our next class is full starting on 2-19 and our interview schedule for the month of Feb is full for future classes. Then again we start at $36K.

 

[CopilotDoug]

Then again we start at $36K.

OH! OH! OH! I'll do it for HALF...no, no, no, wait...a THIRD of that!

 

[Oakum_Boy]

That is commendable.

 

[siucavflight]

What do you mean can't find new hires? Our next class is full starting on 2-19 and our interview schedule for the month of Feb is full for future classes. Then again we start at $36K.

Where do you work?

 

[pilotyip]

siu, USA Jet

 

[enigma]

The other thing about auto workers: They have an effective union! Wow, imagine that....

When they get laid off, they still earn over 50% of their pay. That gives the employers an incentive to not lay them off. Also: Because of the lay-off pay, when the company really does want to thin the ranks, they offer HUGE contract buy outs to get folks off the list. Anywhere from $50,000 to $100,000+. Now, that is the work of a real union.

Now, of course, those "I've got mine" @hole pilots are going to come on here and say crap like: "Yeah, but those kind of benefits mean that overall everyone gets paid a little less (like, for example, senior captains...)"

And that's probably true, but it didn't stop the auto workers unions from negotiating it nonetheless. Why? Because the auto workers know that EVERY worker matters, and there is strength in unity. And, they still earn more than regional pilots from day one.

What does ALPA do? Sit around and figure out schemes to pay their captains a little bit more while screwing over ALPA pilots at other carriers. For just one example, look at Compass. Thanks guys!

I feel your pain brother, but you need a little education. Autoworker unions fall under different laws than do pilot (transportation) unions. Autoworkers can strike fairly easily, pilots can not. It's really that simple. If you don't like it, contribute to a pilot friendly politician. As long as pilot unions fall under the RLA, we don't have much leverage.

When was the last time you volunteered your time to help other pilots?

 

[belchfire]

There is no shortage of underpaid jobs though...

 

[pilotyip]

Xjohn, The union auto companies are getting there butts kicked by the non-union auto companies. This is primarily due to the cost advantage the non-union companies have over the union auto makers. What you call an effective union has lead to the elimination of 100,000's of UAW jobs. UAW menership peaked at over 800,000 in 1979, today it is around 400,000.

 

[Beach Bum]

The Toyota plant in Indiana pays its auto workers similar wages as the Ford Ranger plant in St. Paul, MN.

 

[Goose Egg]

Anyway, I think that it's pretty telling that SKW won't lower its mins below 1000/100. There might be a shortage of qualified applicants, but no shortage of applicants. There are still enough out pilots out there that they can afford to be selective, at least to some degree.

But then again, the fact that they will be hiring 700 pilots at or above my qualification level is pretty good news. Actually, by the time I get 100 multi, I'll probably be around 1200 total.

Anyway, take it all with a grain of salt. There was definitely an element of sensationalism to that piece, but there was also some good info.

-Goose

 

[pilotyip]

Beach bum exactly right in fact Toyota may be paying them more after the new UAW concessionary contract coming up this year. But the Toyota workers are much more productive, they carry more than one job classification, they do not get paid for not working, they have no pension, they have no retirement medical. Those are all costs associated with building cars, and for those reason the non-union plants have an advantage.

 

[ualdriver]

Beach bum exactly right in fact Toyota may be paying them more after the new UAW concessionary contract coming up this year. But the Toyota workers are much more productive, they carry more than one job classification, they do not get paid for not working, they have no pension, they have no retirement medical. Those are all costs associated with building cars, and for those reason the non-union plants have an advantage.

The parallels are intriguing.