************************* Pilot Rock!!

[A350]

labbats:

Don't misunderstand the message....the problem is not the 300 hour pilots.

You are correct that things ARE different now. However, this rapid growth in the regional airlines is coming to a gross halt right now. This is just the beginning. When the economics of the 145 and CRJ200 can no longer be supported, several things will happen. The mainline pilots have basically had their arses handed to them. The regional pilots received their windfall in the form of lots of growth/upgrades...etc. Now the mainline pilots are saying that the 90 seater and in some cases the 70 seaters are theirs to fly. (I am not offering an opinion other than to say that the 90 seater is not an RJ)

Management used the RJ as a tool to decimate not only the pay of the mainline pilots, but they used it to rid themselves of lots of "overpaid" ground workers that the mainline used to employ. Now in the past, the regional pilots have fought to close the gap between their pay and the pay of their counterparts. They took the step to get the pay upwards of $90/hr for a 50 seat jet. Do the math. That means a 100 seater should pay $180/hr and you can see where the whale should pay $500/hr. These economics are not supported in today's environment, and probably will never be.

Sooner or later, the mainline pilots will put a pay rate on the table (ala the USAirways guys) that makes sense for the mainline to keep the 90 seat jets on their property. When that happens, we will see a large loss of jobs at the regionals. That is when all hell will break loose. IMO, lots of 50 seaters will be freight haulers within the next 5 years.

A350

 

[labbats]

labbats:

Don't misunderstand the message....the problem is not the 300 hour pilots.

You are correct that things ARE different now. However, this rapid growth in the regional airlines is coming to a gross halt right now. This is just the beginning. When the economics of the 145 and CRJ200 can no longer be supported, several things will happen. The mainline pilots have basically had their arses handed to them. The regional pilots received their windfall in the form of lots of growth/upgrades...etc. Now the mainline pilots are saying that the 90 seater and in some cases the 70 seaters are theirs to fly. (I am not offering an opinion other than to say that the 90 seater is not an RJ)

Management used the RJ as a tool to decimate not only the pay of the mainline pilots, but they used it to rid themselves of lots of "overpaid" ground workers that the mainline used to employ. Now in the past, the regional pilots have fought to close the gap between their pay and the pay of their counterparts. They took the step to get the pay upwards of $90/hr for a 50 seat jet. Do the math. That means a 100 seater should pay $180/hr and you can see where the whale should pay $500/hr. These economics are not supported in today's environment, and probably will never be.

Sooner or later, the mainline pilots will put a pay rate on the table (ala the USAirways guys) that makes sense for the mainline to keep the 90 seat jets on their property. When that happens, we will see a large loss of jobs at the regionals. That is when all hell will break loose. IMO, lots of 50 seaters will be freight haulers within the next 5 years.

A350

I couldn't agree more. And I wish all hell would break loose. But, let's face it. It won't. The EMB190 just illustrates the B scale of our generation.

I am not the only one that wants those at mainline. Give me something to work towards. I'm not looking for instant gratification, rather some comfy duty rigs and proper staffing. That's not going to happen at the regional level, it's up to you all at mainline. Don't let me down.

 

[kngarthur]

So TSA guys bumped you intentionally....? Explain.....? Maybe they realized who you were turd! Why do we poor RJ pilots deserve an awakening...? KNGDIPSH#T I read some of your other post...you're a loser......Go hang yourself with your underwear!!

Stinker
Ex Waterskiier/Current Jetlinker

Shut up!!! I bet you don't even have a real degree!!

 

[BrickTop]

Someone tell me about *************************s interview I am going to be joing the force so Stick up your Pipe ALPA..........

 

[BrickTop]

I know someone will bite!!

 

[EHE2]

What about ozark

In spite of all the bad press, I for one congratulate GJ crews.

They are the only ones with the balls to screw the TSA and Sh*ttawkwa pilots that were only too happy to screw the TWA crews in 2001/2002/2003 and beyond.

The true scumbags are TSA and Sh*ttawkwa pilots.

Prosit! Go-Jets crews!! Next time a TSA idiot get's in your face, hold up a TWA sign. Then tell them "You are just getting your just deserts."

I hate to go there (being TW furlough)...Don't forget about what TWA did to OZARK! History has a way of repeating itself...

 

[pipejockey]

I have a simple question for the TSA pilots. Since you all seem so concerned that GJ may take some of your flying and fight GJ in the name of protecting the profession, what did you all do about 4 years ago when AMR took RJ's from Eagle while Eagle had guys furloughed no less, and shipped them to TSA? AMR did this to get around APA's scope clause at the time which limited the number of RJ's allowed while American has furloughed pilots. Were you concerned about protecting the jobs of those Eagle pilots?

So that brings up another question. Why should the GJ pilots concern themselves with your potential job losses. At least they offered you all jobs. Did you do the same for Eagle guys? The problem, I feel, is that there are too many of these stinking regional airlines anyway, and the major carriers should just take control of ALL of the aircraft from the smallest RJ and TP to 747. That would benefit all of us, except for the military pilot who wouldn't be able to jump right into the heavy iron at livable wages...but too bad, they would have to get over it!!

 

[pipejockey]

And compared to what we have now in the industry, I think a B scale wouldn't be a bad thing. Lower pay for the new hires while they are flying anything 70 seats and below and higher mainline pay once you have the seniority to get an aircraft with over 70 seats. You spend 3 to 4 years as a RJ FO at the low pay we see today and then you have the seniority to move up to the higher paid aircraft. Or instead of remaining as FO after the 3 or 4 years and moving to the larger equipment, you upgrade in the RJ.

At least we all would have a shot at livable wages in the future. A guy hired at 30 spends 4 years as RJ FO then ugrades and spends another 6 as RJ CA then in all likelihood can hold a CA slot in a 737 for significantly higher pay. Then he has his last 20 years at a livable wage. It's better than the dead-end lifelong regional job many will be stuck with today. No more whipsawing between these abhorrant little regional companies.

 

[Dumbluck]

alright dipshit GJ is retarded but it served mgt purpose so what wrong with HK making money... intentional flamebait.

 

[QUAG]

I have a simple question for the TSA pilots. Since you all seem so concerned that GJ may take some of your flying and fight GJ in the name of protecting the profession, what did you all do about 4 years ago when AMR took RJ's from Eagle while Eagle had guys furloughed no less, and shipped them to TSA? AMR did this to get around APA's scope clause at the time which limited the number of RJ's allowed while American has furloughed pilots. Were you concerned about protecting the jobs of those Eagle pilots?

So that brings up another question. Why should the GJ pilots concern themselves with your potential job losses. At least they offered you all jobs. Did you do the same for Eagle guys? The problem, I feel, is that there are too many of these stinking regional airlines anyway, and the major carriers should just take control of ALL of the aircraft from the smallest RJ and TP to 747. That would benefit all of us, except for the military pilot who wouldn't be able to jump right into the heavy iron at livable wages...but too bad, they would have to get over it!!

Simple answer...TWE flew for TWA, AMR buys TWA, hence TWE flys for AMR.
What's so confusing about this?

 

[FlyHIToo]

Simple answer...TWE flew for TWA, AMR buys TWA, hence TWE flys for AMR.
What's so confusing about this?

Difference is E145's at TSA are still own by AE. Costing American Eagle hard earned jobs.

 

[TSA ERJ]

FlyHIToo,
The difference is the TSA pilots had no choice, say, or involvement in acquiring airplanes that came from Eagle. These are decisions made entirely by management with no input from the pilot group. In fact, members of our MEC participated with the Eagle pilots in informational picketing protesting this action. I empathize with the Eagle pilots because I know many of them are very upset about this, but the majority are smart enough to know their beef is with management and not our pilots. I for one hope they get those airplanes back.

GJ pilots, like yourself, made individual, conscious decisions to pursue employment with a company that is a true alter ego. A company who will be used to depress wages. You can bring up the Eagle airplanes all you want but it has no relevance or similarities to the GJ issue. You can use it to try to justify yourself and your decisions, but it is an obvious attempt to muddy the waters and distract people from the fact that you chose to be a tool of management in their efforts against labor.

 

[pipejockey]

FlyHIToo,
The difference is the TSA pilots had no choice, say, or involvement in acquiring airplanes that came from Eagle. These are decisions made entirely by management with no input from the pilot group.

Just like the GJ issue was a decision by management with no input from the pilot group. Your anger should be directed towards management not the pilot's willing to fly for GJ. In addition, you guys could have refused to fly Eagles aircraft, just like you expect other pilots who have no connection to TSA to refuse to work for GJ.

 

[pipejockey]

Simple answer...TWE flew for TWA, AMR buys TWA, hence TWE flys for AMR.
What's so confusing about this?

I believe it is you who is confused. Wasn't TWE (TSA) just a contractor for TWA? When AMR bought TWA they could have just thrown TSA aside and used their own wholly owned (Eagle) to provide the feed. Instead, they give aircraft owned by AMR to TSA to get around scope just like GJ is being used to get around scope.

 

[TSA ERJ]

pipejockey,
GJ was a management decision embraced by a small group of pilots. They are enablers who allowed GJ to go forth and be used as a weapon, not just against TSA but all regional pilots. They are as complicit as management.

The TSA pilots had no justification to refuse to fly the Eagle airplanes. It would certainly have resulted in termination. The GJ pilots did have a choice. Yes there are some regionals in trouble, but there are still many opportunities in the regional industry. These pilots are as much a part of the problem as management.

You can continue to try and confuse the issues by throwing out the Eagle planes but most will see through the BS and recognize this for what it is.