Pilot In Command Time

[awacs941]

Hello Everyone,

Quick question regarding Pilot In Command Time:

Does time when a person is rated for the aircraft but receiving instruction quality as "pilot in command" for airlines?

For example:

After you receive your private single and are working on your instrument, and commercial you are logging pilot in command time while receiving dual instruction.

The student is the sole manipulator of the controls... What are your thoughts on if this time counts as PIC as far as an airline app?

Thanks!

 

[FLYLOW22]

Does time when a person is rated for the aircraft but receiving instruction quality as "pilot in command" for airlines?

Thanks!

A couple of things here.

1) One day you will have THOUSANDS of PIC hours. Don't get too hasty and screw up a good interview with a sloppy logbook.

2) If you are receiving dual instruction, it's DUAL INSTRUCTION RECEIVED. Log it as dual.

Your solo days are over if you are at least a Private Pilot.

PIC time will be the time that you are THE Pilot In Command... the only one responsible for the flight.

Dual is Dual. Period.

Keep it simple. Good luck.

 

[awacs941]

A couple of things here.

1) One day you will have THOUSANDS of PIC hours. Don't get too hasty and screw up a good interview with a sloppy logbook.

2) If you are receiving dual instruction, it's DUAL INSTRUCTION RECEIVED. Log it as dual.

Your solo days are over if you are at least a Private Pilot.

PIC time will be the time that you are THE Pilot In Command... the only one responsible for the flight.

Dual is Dual. Period.

Keep it simple. Good luck.

What I've been taught is to log time as PIC for the time that you are appropriatly rated in the aircraft, is this incorrect? I know myself and others that log their Dual Received as PIC after they are rated...

 

[skyaddict]

Go ahead and log "FAA" PIC time according to the FARs namely 61.51, which is pretty clearcut and which even allows someone who is NOT acting as or even qualified to be PIC, to log PIC under certain circumstances spelled out in that reg. (and sometimes don't even allow the actual PIC to "log" either). Being able to be PIC and logging PIC are two entirely different (even if sometimes coincident) things in the FARs, and 61.51 spells out the logging. Rules governing who is allowed to be PIC per FAR 1.1 are scattered in different locations of part 61.

As for airline apps, they generally are very specific that they mean time spent acting as PIC, at least when it comes to turbine, so keep a separate tally eg in a blank column, of acting PIC or FAR 1.1 (definitions) PIC and use that when they ask for that number, and that way no-one will ever be able to accuse you of misrepresenting logging per 61.51 and logging per 1.1.

 

[awacs941]

Here is the example that brought up the idea of logging PIC:

The following are the minimum qualifications to apply for a pilot position:

• 1,500 hours fixed-wing total flight time
• 1,000 hours fixed-wing PIC time, or 500 hours PIC time and 500 hours SIC time in a turbojet
• 1,000 hours fixed-wing turbine time
• 1,000 hours fixed-wing multi-engine time (civilian or military) or 1,000 hours single-engine military fighter jet time
• A current ATP written exam
• A current first class FAA medical
• A current passport
• A Bachelor's degree is highly desired

Notice the 500 hours PIC time... Now this airline does not specify 1.1 PIC or 61.51 PIC...

Your thoughts?

 

[FLYLOW22]

Keep is simple OR don't.

Get hired OR don't.

Do whatever you want... it's your career.

Professional employers are not interested in logbook technicalities. The FARs state one thing, the employers desire another. It's that simple.

You will log thousands of command hours (real ones) in your career. Don't muddy the waters with P51 time... or do. It's your choice, our career, your story that you will need to justify in an interview down the road.

Solo + Dual + PIC = TT

If there is an instructor in the plane, most likely he is logging PIC as the CFI. There can be only one. He is it... not you. If there was a wreck, the FAA would look at him as the PIC, not you. Clearer?

PIC time mins? When I ride in the back of an airliner I want someone up front who actually WAS the PIC for 500 hours (if that's the mins) not someone who had on training wheels. Hell, I want MORE.

Enjoy.

 

[lookin4better]

That 500 hour PIC is the Part 1 definition .....THE person responsible....and there is ONLY ONE in an airplane at a time.....its not the loose definition in Part 61.51...

 

[StopNTSing]

+1

What FLYLOW22 said. Couldn't have stated it better myself.

 

[igneousy2]

I listened to all the airline pilot wannabes at the flight schools and I screwed up my logbook early on with all kinds of crazy things- safety pilot, PIC and dual at the same time, 135 "empty legs" etc.

Now when I go for an interview I have to be prepared to answer to every one of those entries - ridicules considering that if you add up all of those entries and compare it to all of my flight time it only represents <1% of my total flight time but is 100% of my stress during the logbook review portion at an interview.


No matter how tempting, I think you are better off if you do not do any "gray" area logging...you are not really saving that much time and I would have rather flown an extra month than have to have endured the potential questioning at an interview. DON'T put anything in your logbook that will raise questiions at FEDEX in 10 years. At that point it won't matter if you're right or wrong. If you have to start quoting reg numbers to justify the time you are putting in the logbook then you are just better off leaving it out.

later

 

[Fedora]

Listen to these guys, Grasshopper!
Now is not the time to start out on the wrong foot. I know that you can't wait to build those hours. They will come, believe me. If you sign for the airplane, you can log PIC. Understand that when you are in the right seat of that part 135 or 121 machine, that you can only log SIC, even when it's your leg. Those guys logging P51 time usually filter out during sim training or upgrade. Have a logbook that you can be proud of.
Ten years from now at that FedEx interview, peronal integrity will be something they will look for.
Enjoy your career, and fly safe.