Picken's $700 Billion Plan

[recallsomeday]

Actually, wind (with a production tax credit) is competitive with coal.



Bottom line is that without subsidies (production tax credit) this would not be competetive and self sustaining, and would eventually go away.

Example.... new ethanol plant built in SE North Dakota, scheduled to open 2 weeks ago. Closed indefinitely because the price of corn is too HIGH, not cost effective anymore.

DOH !!

 

[Poahi]

Anybody know how to convert your car to natural gas? I've heard it's currently possible and that the mileage isn't quite as good, but natural gas is cheaper.

Are there limits on what kind of car or engine that it will work with?

 

[Kugelblitz]

Well, if it's any consolation, he can't seem to spell solar. (see video - it may be a Texas thing)

Trust me, its' a Texas thing.

 

[deadstick]

Just a few thoughts…

1) He’s putting his money where his mouth is.

2) This is a private party pushing innovation/new technology…isn’t that how our system works (in theory)?

3) The energy storage should not be an issue because, the way I understand this, the power supply will run like a hybrid. When the solar and wind generated energy is not available, the other sources will pick up the load.

4) Nobody is discussing the reduction of demand. For years we have fought a “war on drugs.” All the experts believe that education is just as important as, if not more important than, interdiction. It’s a reduction of demand. The parallel to this crisis is the need improved infrastructure (as opposed to increasing supply) in the form of mass transit, rebuilding the rail network, etc. The car manufacturers cannot just release a bunch of hydrogen fuel cell vehicles unless there is an easily accessible supply of hydrogen gas. How many gas stations are going to invest a ton of money to install a hydrogen system with no hydrogen cars on the road? It’s a chicken/egg problem.

 

[Smarta$$]

The Congressional Republicans passed bills in the House and the Senate 5 times in the 90's to open our country to drilling in the ANWR and the OCS. Bill Clinton vetoed all 5 bills.

In the 2000's the Republican controlled House passed the very same bill, but when it made it to the Republican controlled Senate it failed by 1 vote (John McCain). Thanks John, you knucklehead! Fortunately he now sees the error of his way and is FOR drilling.

Now, with the country in dire financial straights, President Bush has lifted the Presidential moratorium on drilling in the OCS, however there is still a congressional moratorium in place and the Democrats aren't budging.

If you like $4-5 gas you can thank the Democrats, they have publicly stated that the US needs to pay more for oil and gasoline. They have made it all but impossible for the US to drill for oil in our largest reserves, build nuclear power plants, build new refineries, or use clean burning coal technology. The party of "NO". We are going to reduce our way to the solution?!?!? I've seen a lot of airlines try that, it doesn't work.

I don't want to tell you who to vote for, but to say no one has a plan to reduce our foreign oil consumption problem is just outright wrong.

"Hope and Change". If you don't change, all you'll have is hope. "Hope" ain't gonna get those gas prices down.

A few things that you niglect to mention. Oil drilled out of ANWR and the OCS is not guaranteed to be sold here in the US. We send allot of oil out of alaska to Japan already.

Also, the estimates I have seen for the OCS are for about 1 million barrels per day. That is only 5% of US daily consumption. Or about .20 cents a gallon. But wait, oil is a world commodity. 1 million barrels per day is alittle bit more than 1% of daily consumption, or about a .05 cent per gallon reduction in prices. But I guess it will kill the speculators, so we should triple the affect, well say it will lower prices .15 cents per gallon!

No thanks. Republicans like say drill, drill, drill, but they aren't putting any realistic numbers with the retoric. All they say is pay less, but they won't even make a stated GUESS as to how much less. That is because they know it is almost meaningless.

I heard W make speach a few months back. He said that drilling in ANWR would "likely" bring down the cost of oil. He couldn't even say that it would. Only that it "likely" would.

It is all political. Even pickens, a life long republican and oil man says "this is one problem we can't drill our way out of". Sure he has money on the line, but that does not make him wrong.

Our policies have sent trillions of dollars over to China and India. We have almost single handedly created the growth beast that is those two countries. There is no putting that cat back in the bag. They will continue to grow as we transfer our wealth to China and India. We have created this incredible demand for oil over there. It is our fault.

Drill, drill, drill just keeps us captive's of big oil for longer. But the problem will not go away. 1-2 million barrels a day won't even make a dent.

Think about it this way, we are the only country that is not exploring its oil resorces. So if we do, and we add our little 1-2 million barrels to the GROWING world demand, the whole wopping 1-2% of supply increase is very close to meanless.

More crack doesn't cure someones addiction to crack.

And about our oil shale in the rockies, what are we going to do, strip mine the rocky mountians? That is rediculous. I don't want to visit the rockies or fly over head and see it turned into a bunch of mines.

 

[Smarta$$]

This is a great plan too for America:

www.Americansolutions.com

I disagree. It will make little difference. A drop in a very big bucket. I don't know why you guys won't put any numbers with this ********************tt.

 

[Smarta$$]

The republicans had control of the house, senate, and white house for 6 straight years, and you mention ONE vote in 2000? What were they doing about it for the next 60 MONTHS?

Money is pouring into oil futures to for various reasons i.e. hedge against inflation, money coming out of the free-falling mortgage market (both results of poor government oversight over the past 7 years). The falling dollar (thank you Iraq war!) is only exacerbating things.

The incompetence of the Bush administration is nothing short of staggering. They put us in this situation. Blaming a congress who has been in control (with the opposition party in the white house)for 18 months is pathetic.

Exactly.

 

[SWA GUY]

Hey SWA guy you seem to want to make this a political party thing. Quesiton how much oil would have anwar produced for a private oil company. Would that have been sold on the world market or just in the U.S.? How much money would have that saved the average household in America? Few pennies maybe?

The US Geological Survey says the ANWR holds about 30 Billion barrels. Thats ALOT of oil. Not to mention the oil reserves we have off the coast of Cali, WA, and in the Gulf. The ANWR oil would not go to a private oil company, but leased to the major oil companies to drill and produce for sale on the NYMEX. Pennies? Hardly.

 

[SWA GUY]

A few things that you niglect(Neglect) to mention. Oil drilled out of ANWR and the OCS is not guaranteed to be sold here in the US. It doesn't matter, it will drive crude oil prices on the NYMEX to reasonable levels. We send allot of oil out of alaska to Japan already.

Also, the estimates I have seen for the OCS are for about 1 million barrels per day. Really? Are these the same people that estimate it'll take 17 years to get oil from the ANWR. It only took 3 years to build the entire Alaska pipline. No, No, No is the attitude that got us in this mess. That is only 5% of US daily consumption. Or about .20 cents a gallon. But wait, oil is a world commodity. 1 million barrels per day is alittle bit more than 1% of daily consumption, or about a .05 cent per gallon reduction in prices. But I guess it will kill the speculators, so we should triple the affect, well say it will lower prices .15 cents per gallon!

No thanks. Republicans like say drill, drill, drill, but they aren't putting any realistic numbers with the retoric. Yes they are, you're not listening. All they say is pay less, but they won't even make a stated GUESS as to how much less. That is because they know it is almost meaningless. Right.

I heard W make speach a few months back. He said that drilling in ANWR would "likely" bring down the cost of oil. He couldn't even say that it would. Only that it "likely" would.

It is all political. Even pickens, a life long republican and oil man says "this is one problem we can't drill our way out of". Sure he has money on the line, but that does not make him wrong.

Our policies have sent trillions of dollars over to China and India. We have almost single handedly created the growth beast that is those two countries. There is no putting that cat back in the bag. They will continue to grow as we transfer our wealth to China and India. We have created this incredible demand for oil over there. It is our fault.

Drill, drill, drill just keeps us captive's of big oil for longer. But the problem will not go away. 1-2 million barrels a day won't even make a dent.

Think about it this way, we are the only country that is not exploring its oil resorces. So if we do, and we add our little 1-2 million barrels to the GROWING world demand, the whole wopping 1-2% of supply increase is very close to meanless.

More crack doesn't cure someones addiction to crack.

And about our oil shale in the rockies, what are we going to do, strip mine the rocky mountians? That is rediculous. I don't want to visit the rockies or fly over head and see it turned into a bunch of mines. quote]

Have you seen where the ANWR is? It's already a wasteland. Not that drilling in 2000 of the 19,000,000 acres makes much of an impact. You are playing into the hand of the people that are against energy independence at all costs. It's obvious that you've taken on a defeatist attitude as the Democrats have. This country can do anything it wants, but only if people have the will.[/

 

[SWA GUY]

The republicans had control of the house, senate, and white house for 6 straight years, and you mention ONE vote in 2000? Ya gotta have 60 votes in the Senate pass anything. Civics 101 my dear. What were they doing about it for the next 60 MONTHS? How about the entire time the Dems controlled Congress, zero.

Money is pouring into oil futures to for various reasons i.e. hedge against inflation, money coming out of the free-falling mortgage market (both results of poor government oversight over the past 7 years). The falling dollar (thank you Iraq war!) is only exacerbating things.

The incompetence of the Bush administration is nothing short of staggering. They put us in this situation. Blaming a congress who has been in control (with the opposition party in the white house)for 18 months is pathetic.

That dastardly GW Bush, he's a bad King! Whaa! First it was the hurricanes, now it's oil and the war! I seem to remember many, many Dems voted for the way, then politicized it. Disgusting group!

 

[SkiFishFly]

I disagree. It will make little difference. A drop in a very big bucket. I don't know why you guys won't put any numbers with this ********************tt.

You are free to disagree. You are wrong though.

 

[Poahi]

Those who oppose new sources of oil generally complain it 'takes too long' or 'isn't enough' to curb prices. Yet at the same time, they are the same people who believe high prices are a good thing. Pick a position - only one please.

 

[blueridge71]

Expanded nuclear should be a part of any energy plan but this notion floating around that it's "proven and profitable" technology is a stretch. Nuclear has been heavily subsidized for R&D(and we're not talking about the manhattan project), operating costs, and has liability caps in place. The liability caps mean that if a plant goes all Chernobyl the plant is only responsible for a limited amount of damages no matter how bad the carnage. This saves hundreds of millions if not billions of dollars in insurance payments over time.

If wind and solar had been as heavily subsidized as nuclear we might already have "proven and profitable" technology by now.

How about France? They get 80% of their electricity from nuclear power and have never had an accident. Chernobyl was a Russian plant that was nowhere near meeting western safety standards.

 

[Smarta$$]

Show me the republican estimates of how much lower oil and gas would be if we produce the 1 million barrels a day from ANWR.

Also, show me the estimates of how much oil and gas will go down when we add 1 million barrels a day from the OCS.

I didn't think so.

None of the oil men or the republicans (I am not sure if there is a difference between them) have quantified the savings. At all.

1-2 million barrels a day added to world supply is less than 2-3% increase. It is very small. 3% of 4.00 dollars a gallon is .12 cents. Add in alittle for speculation, lets say double, .24 cents. Holy cow, look at all the money I just saved.

Give me a break. Oil men in the whitehouse, a war that drives up demand and destabilizes the region, a trade policy that grows the third world like a weed and increases their demand for oil? Yeah its the Dems.


Put another way, So the US is the only country not increasing its drilling. And because of that, the WHOLE world is paying ALLOT more for oil. But there supposedly is SO much oil out there. So our little failure to add 2-3% of world production is causing the shole world to pay record oil prices. Keep in mind, that every other country is free to drill, drill, drill as much as they want and anywhere they want outside of the US, yet still our 2-3% is the cause?

Get real. Use some common sense.

 

[Smarta$$]

Also, like I said before, W himself said recently in a speach that oil from ANWR would "likely" reduce the price of oil.

The oil man president himself didn't even guarantee that ANWR would lower the price of oil.

How about you borrow me a thousand dollars and I will "likely" pay you back. Tell me when the check is in the mail.

 

[Poahi]

The oil man president himself didn't even guarantee that ANWR would lower the price of oil.

Here's some common sense.

1. Politicians don't guarantee oil prices.
2. There is no single tactic that is going to reduce oil prices.
3. The liberal strategy of keeping oil prices high is going to cause:

A. The airline industry to collapse;
B. A global depression;
C. The loss of life of people liberals are supposed champion.


If you've got a better idea, I'd love to hear it.

 

[Mr.B]

Here's some common sense.

1. Politicians don't guarantee oil prices.
2. There is no single tactic that is going to reduce oil prices.
3. The liberal strategy of keeping oil prices high is going to cause:

A. The airline industry to collapse;
B. A global depression;
C. The loss of life of people liberals are supposed champion.


If you've got a better idea, I'd love to hear it.

It's fairly simple. Use what infrastructures and technology that are already in place...

1. Nuclear power for the grid (produce hydrogen at night...like the FRENCH)
2. Natural gas for the cars (plenty of it/cheap/clean)
3. Kerosene for the jets.

You can thank me later.

 

[Smarta$$]

What are the estimates of what ANWR would lower prices?

How about OCS?

 

[SWA GUY]

What are the estimates of what ANWR would lower prices?

How about OCS?

Keep stomping your feet and shouting "NO!", Daddy will keep you safe. There, there the gubmint will take care of you cradle to grave.

You have clearly heard about 15 seconds of misinformation about the oil business and know it all, just like the press.

 

[myrows]

How about France? They get 80% of their electricity from nuclear power and have never had an accident. Chernobyl was a Russian plant that was nowhere near meeting western safety standards.

The point wasn't that both France and the US have safety concerns to the degree that Chernobyl did. The point is that no matter how safe they are they still get liabilty caps which save them hundreds of millions of dollars in insurance payments. Still a form of subsidy.
I personally don't mind subsidizing nuclear energy. I do mind people who claim that nuclear has proven profitable without generous subsidies. If it's okay to subsidize nuclear why not wind and solar?

 

[SWA GUY]

What are the estimates of what ANWR would lower prices?

How about OCS?

You don't understand the commodities market, aka the futures market.

But to give you an answer, the best consultants in the oil industry figure crude to trade at around $50/bbl tomorrow if legislation is signed. $65/bbl by December if the legislation is not signed.

 

[Smarta$$]

You don't understand the commodities market, aka the futures market.

But to give you an answer, the best consultants in the oil industry figure crude to trade at around $50/bbl tomorrow if legislation is signed. $65/bbl by December if the legislation is not signed.

The Dept of Energy, the White House, or even the Republican news network are not reporting your figures.

Again, the whole world is paying record prices for oil because ONE country won't add 2-3% to the world supply? Get real.

 

[Smarta$$]

I do not advocate that the government take care of me. I expect our worlds scientists and entrepreneurs to give us solutions that don't feed the addiction.

It is already happening slowly. Look at the Tesla Roadster. Or even the Chevy Volt. There are about Ten cars coming to market in the next two years that will allow most americans to drive to and from work without burning a drop of gas. That is how you kill demand.

You guys that say we can't find any other way to power our cars are the defeatist.

You prefer more crack, I prefer drug treatment.

Show me you are not a defeatist, other than just saying drill, drill, drill.

 

[SWA GUY]

Yep...you're still at a loss.

Those entities are not in the oil bidness.

 

[rajflyboy]

Producing as little as 2 to 3 million barrels of oil per day here in the USA will LOWER the price of a barrel of oil.

It will send the message to the mideast that we ARE willing to find our OWN oil and the mideast will make sure the price comes down... so they can continue to sell oil to us.

Heck.. Just W lifting the Executive branch ruling against drilling off shore has already lowered the price of a barrel of oil by 10 bucks per barrell.

T Boone Pickens is using government funding to buy those windmills. Windmills that will never be able to power big ciites like NYC, Chicago, LAX, Atlanta, Etc. Wind power througout the USA is a farse. In some regions with a lot of wind.. a lot of land and a few houses it will work.

 

[rajflyboy]

I do not advocate that the government take care of me. I expect our worlds scientists and entrepreneurs to give us solutions that don't feed the addiction.

It is already happening slowly. Look at the Tesla Roadster. Or even the Chevy Volt. There are about Ten cars coming to market in the next two years that will allow most americans to drive to and from work without burning a drop of gas. That is how you kill demand.

You guys that say we can't find any other way to power our cars are the defeatist.

You prefer more crack, I prefer drug treatment.

Show me you are not a defeatist, other than just saying drill, drill, drill.

How are you powering that Electricity for all these Electric Cars?

 

[coolyokeluke]

Producing as little as 2 to 3 million barrels of oil per day here in the USA will LOWER the price of a barrel of oil.

It will send the message to the mideast that we ARE willing to find our OWN oil and the mideast will make sure the price comes down... so they can continue to sell oil to us.

Heck.. Just W lifting the Executive branch ruling against drilling off shore has already lowered the price of a barrel of oil by 10 bucks per barrell.

T Boone Pickens is using government funding to buy those windmills. Windmills that will never be able to power big ciites like NYC, Chicago, LAX, Atlanta, Etc. Wind power througout the USA is a farse. In some regions with a lot of wind.. a lot of land and a few houses it will work.

You're not going to scare the people in the mideast. The figures of oil reserves being thrown around by neo cons like SWA GUY are total oil. That's the amount of estimated oil if we recovered it all, cost no object. Cost is always an object. If you start looking at economically viable recoverable oil, even at $140/bbl, the figure is much, much less. The theory that even a little amount of additional oil on the market would reduce prices can be put to rest by Saudi Arabia's example; they raised their output by 200k bbl/day initially and then by 700k bbl/day and the prices per barrel didn't even nudge downwards. And by the way I support drilling, when done in a smart manner, because it will help our economy by providing high-paying jobs here in the US. But it's a fallacy to think the small amount of reserves we have (compared with the mideast, Russia, etc) will cause a dent in the world commodities markets.

If you want to send a message that will scare the arabs, show them we're serious about getting rid of our oil addiction. Do it by building nukes plants, windmills, solar, tidal energy, etc.

The oil markets have been volitale the last few days. You think that $10/bbl less is going to stay for a while? I seriously doubt it. The pundit I listened to on the way to work this morning said it was from investor fears of a slowing world economy and a suprisingly large jump in oil inventories in the US. I doubt Bush's lifting the ruling had anything to do with it as the congressional rule is still in place.

The real "no no no" people are the ones who won't look down the road for solutions, rather than the right now quick fixes. There is an enourmous amount of windpower to be tapped here in the US. It can be sent to the demand centers, it will just take an investment in our grid's infrastructure. Electricity can also be sent a long ways down the road by converting it to high voltage DC to minimize line losses. It's completely feasible and demonstrated to work. The costs of coal are higher if you start to factor in environmental damages. Nuke power needs huge govt subsidies to make it work. Oil companies have had huge tax breaks for years. Why are we so against assisting a truly clean source of energy, like wind? A good point was brought up that sometimes the wind doesn't blow. A solution to that is the afore-mentioned grids; when wind isn't blowing in one part of the country another part will have wind almost always. Also you can partner with industry for load shedding; it works by offering industry cheaper power in return for having them shut off in peak load/brownout situations. There are already many natural gas fired "peaker plants" the operate just when electrical consumption is at its peak.

If we could make more of our grid run off renewables it would leave more oil for Jet A!

 

[Smarta$$]

Yeah, W is the reason that oil came down. Right. Tool. Maybe the larger than as expected build in inventories, like CNBC is reporting? Do to decreased demand, from conservation. Just as plug-in hybrids will lower demand dramatically in the very near future.

You power the electric cars with coal, wind, solar, nuclear, hydro, natural gas, anything except oil.

You are all defeatist if you think oil is the answer. And that our scientists and companies can't find another way. They can, and they already are.

I have already said the price will come down if you add 1-3% to the world supply. But it will be allot less than you think if we don't make other significant changes.

There is NO guarantee that oil pumped out of our wells will be sold at our gas stations. Oil out of alaska is being sent to Japan right now, even though we import most of our oil already.

More oil does not cure the addiction. It just temporarily decreases the pain.

But you all can't think for yourselves, you just get stuck on the republican talking points. You for some reason just beleive every word that fox news puts out without thinking that they may have an egenda.

Think for yourselfs. Is the WHOLE world really paying RECORD energy prices because ONE country does not add another 1-3% of world supply. Keep in mind that EVERY OTHER COUNTRY in the world is free to add ALL THEY WANT or CAN to world supply. Nobody is stopping the entire rest of the world from adding supply. But I guess the whole world is at our mercy. Give me a break.

By the way, when was the last time you saw an empty gas pump. Yeah, we are short on oil alright.

And why do the republicans say that speculation isn't to blame, but then say that if we will just say yes to drilling, the speculators will get crushed and have to start selling and covering their short positions.

Which is it?

If you really want to see the price drop, then hit the demand side by conserving where you can, start looking into the ten or so vehicles coming in the next few years that will cut gas for transportation by leaps and bounds. Then see the inventories build and watch the speculators get crushed. We saw inventories build over the last couple of days and the price went down aggressively.

That is the beginning of a cure, not more drugs for the addict. I am sick of my wallet being chained to traders and oil men. No thank you. Yes I will likely have to by energy from someone for the forseable future, when I can have some not to distant future version of the Tesla Roadster, or something equivilant, I am very encourgaged.

For those that don't know, The Tesla roadster, which is for sale now, and will have much competition and a more affordable price in the near future can go 240 miles on one charge. It costs about 3.00 to charge up and can plug into any house hold outlet. I don't think it uses any more energy than a TV or 2.

240 miles for 3.00, sounds allot better than "drill, drill, drill".

But I guess I am just stupid, and should change my mind on drilling so I can be stuck paying 3.99 a gallon until we run out of the stuff.

 

[jhill]

From what I've read, solar and wind simply aren't cost effective at this point. The next generation of solar/wind technology might be better, but at this point it is not ready.

What is ready is nuclear power, clean coal, and coal gasification. If we build more nuclear power plants in particular, we can make electricity cheap and practical enough to inspire homeowners to change from heating oil to electricity. Likewise, Tesla Motors (http://www.teslamotors.com/), builder of an electric sports car, is currently working on an electric minivan. As oil continues to rise in price and the prices of electric cars fall (due to manufacturing more), electric cars will also become more attractive to consumers.

To keep our economy from imploding in the meantime, we need to start drilling domestically everywhere we can immediately. Converting coal to gas, a process that has been around since WWII, is also becoming more cost effective and could help to increase oil supplies.

It really is this simple. Now if we can keep special interest groups out of the fight maybe congress will actuall do whats right for the people of this country. Before our entire economy implodes. Its closer than you think.

Oil prices are due to our weak dollar and high demand, not speculators. We can't just keep printing money and borrowing from the Saudi's and Chinese. This is comming to a head and soon. Write you congressmen and senators and tell what you demand. Not for this industry but for our entire economy and way of life.

 

[Secret Squirrel]

Oil prices are due to our weak dollar and high demand, not speculators. We can't just keep printing money and borrowing from the Saudi's and Chinese. This is comming to a head and soon. Write you congressmen and senators and tell what you demand. Not for this industry but for our entire economy and way of life.

The only people that are saying it is not the speculators to blame are the speculators. I agree demand is going up and the dollar is weaker but that does not explain 150% jump in crude price. What explains it better is the crude market use to have about 10-20% speculators (the SWA types) at the beginning of the decade to 50% speculators throwing money in today. And those people will make as much money on the market going up as they did on the market going down. They are playing the market without care as to how bad it is killing the economy.

And what do you think will happened to the natural gas market as we start to use more for our cars? Or electric prices as we start using more for our cars? Or coal prices if we start using it for our cars. I have an answer for you. Look at what has happened with corn prices.