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Picken's $700 Billion Plan

  • Thread starter Thread starter Poahi
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Actually, wind (with a production tax credit) is competitive with coal.



Bottom line is that without subsidies (production tax credit) this would not be competetive and self sustaining, and would eventually go away.

Example.... new ethanol plant built in SE North Dakota, scheduled to open 2 weeks ago. Closed indefinitely because the price of corn is too HIGH, not cost effective anymore.

DOH !!
 
Anybody know how to convert your car to natural gas? I've heard it's currently possible and that the mileage isn't quite as good, but natural gas is cheaper.

Are there limits on what kind of car or engine that it will work with?
 
Well, if it's any consolation, he can't seem to spell solar. (see video - it may be a Texas thing)


Trust me, its' a Texas thing.
 
Just a few thoughts…

1) He’s putting his money where his mouth is.

2) This is a private party pushing innovation/new technology…isn’t that how our system works (in theory)?

3) The energy storage should not be an issue because, the way I understand this, the power supply will run like a hybrid. When the solar and wind generated energy is not available, the other sources will pick up the load.

4) Nobody is discussing the reduction of demand. For years we have fought a “war on drugs.” All the experts believe that education is just as important as, if not more important than, interdiction. It’s a reduction of demand. The parallel to this crisis is the need improved infrastructure (as opposed to increasing supply) in the form of mass transit, rebuilding the rail network, etc. The car manufacturers cannot just release a bunch of hydrogen fuel cell vehicles unless there is an easily accessible supply of hydrogen gas. How many gas stations are going to invest a ton of money to install a hydrogen system with no hydrogen cars on the road? It’s a chicken/egg problem.
 
The Congressional Republicans passed bills in the House and the Senate 5 times in the 90's to open our country to drilling in the ANWR and the OCS. Bill Clinton vetoed all 5 bills.

In the 2000's the Republican controlled House passed the very same bill, but when it made it to the Republican controlled Senate it failed by 1 vote (John McCain). Thanks John, you knucklehead! Fortunately he now sees the error of his way and is FOR drilling.

Now, with the country in dire financial straights, President Bush has lifted the Presidential moratorium on drilling in the OCS, however there is still a congressional moratorium in place and the Democrats aren't budging.

If you like $4-5 gas you can thank the Democrats, they have publicly stated that the US needs to pay more for oil and gasoline. They have made it all but impossible for the US to drill for oil in our largest reserves, build nuclear power plants, build new refineries, or use clean burning coal technology. The party of "NO". We are going to reduce our way to the solution?!?!? I've seen a lot of airlines try that, it doesn't work.

I don't want to tell you who to vote for, but to say no one has a plan to reduce our foreign oil consumption problem is just outright wrong.

"Hope and Change". If you don't change, all you'll have is hope. "Hope" ain't gonna get those gas prices down.

A few things that you niglect to mention. Oil drilled out of ANWR and the OCS is not guaranteed to be sold here in the US. We send allot of oil out of alaska to Japan already.

Also, the estimates I have seen for the OCS are for about 1 million barrels per day. That is only 5% of US daily consumption. Or about .20 cents a gallon. But wait, oil is a world commodity. 1 million barrels per day is alittle bit more than 1% of daily consumption, or about a .05 cent per gallon reduction in prices. But I guess it will kill the speculators, so we should triple the affect, well say it will lower prices .15 cents per gallon!

No thanks. Republicans like say drill, drill, drill, but they aren't putting any realistic numbers with the retoric. All they say is pay less, but they won't even make a stated GUESS as to how much less. That is because they know it is almost meaningless.

I heard W make speach a few months back. He said that drilling in ANWR would "likely" bring down the cost of oil. He couldn't even say that it would. Only that it "likely" would.

It is all political. Even pickens, a life long republican and oil man says "this is one problem we can't drill our way out of". Sure he has money on the line, but that does not make him wrong.

Our policies have sent trillions of dollars over to China and India. We have almost single handedly created the growth beast that is those two countries. There is no putting that cat back in the bag. They will continue to grow as we transfer our wealth to China and India. We have created this incredible demand for oil over there. It is our fault.

Drill, drill, drill just keeps us captive's of big oil for longer. But the problem will not go away. 1-2 million barrels a day won't even make a dent.

Think about it this way, we are the only country that is not exploring its oil resorces. So if we do, and we add our little 1-2 million barrels to the GROWING world demand, the whole wopping 1-2% of supply increase is very close to meanless.

More crack doesn't cure someones addiction to crack.

And about our oil shale in the rockies, what are we going to do, strip mine the rocky mountians? That is rediculous. I don't want to visit the rockies or fly over head and see it turned into a bunch of mines.
 
The republicans had control of the house, senate, and white house for 6 straight years, and you mention ONE vote in 2000? What were they doing about it for the next 60 MONTHS?

Money is pouring into oil futures to for various reasons i.e. hedge against inflation, money coming out of the free-falling mortgage market (both results of poor government oversight over the past 7 years). The falling dollar (thank you Iraq war!) is only exacerbating things.

The incompetence of the Bush administration is nothing short of staggering. They put us in this situation. Blaming a congress who has been in control (with the opposition party in the white house)for 18 months is pathetic.

Exactly.
 
Hey SWA guy you seem to want to make this a political party thing. Quesiton how much oil would have anwar produced for a private oil company. Would that have been sold on the world market or just in the U.S.? How much money would have that saved the average household in America? Few pennies maybe?

The US Geological Survey says the ANWR holds about 30 Billion barrels. Thats ALOT of oil. Not to mention the oil reserves we have off the coast of Cali, WA, and in the Gulf. The ANWR oil would not go to a private oil company, but leased to the major oil companies to drill and produce for sale on the NYMEX. Pennies? Hardly.
 
A few things that you niglect(Neglect) to mention. Oil drilled out of ANWR and the OCS is not guaranteed to be sold here in the US. It doesn't matter, it will drive crude oil prices on the NYMEX to reasonable levels. We send allot of oil out of alaska to Japan already.

Also, the estimates I have seen for the OCS are for about 1 million barrels per day. Really? Are these the same people that estimate it'll take 17 years to get oil from the ANWR. It only took 3 years to build the entire Alaska pipline. No, No, No is the attitude that got us in this mess. That is only 5% of US daily consumption. Or about .20 cents a gallon. But wait, oil is a world commodity. 1 million barrels per day is alittle bit more than 1% of daily consumption, or about a .05 cent per gallon reduction in prices. But I guess it will kill the speculators, so we should triple the affect, well say it will lower prices .15 cents per gallon!

No thanks. Republicans like say drill, drill, drill, but they aren't putting any realistic numbers with the retoric. Yes they are, you're not listening. All they say is pay less, but they won't even make a stated GUESS as to how much less. That is because they know it is almost meaningless. Right.

I heard W make speach a few months back. He said that drilling in ANWR would "likely" bring down the cost of oil. He couldn't even say that it would. Only that it "likely" would.

It is all political. Even pickens, a life long republican and oil man says "this is one problem we can't drill our way out of". Sure he has money on the line, but that does not make him wrong.

Our policies have sent trillions of dollars over to China and India. We have almost single handedly created the growth beast that is those two countries. There is no putting that cat back in the bag. They will continue to grow as we transfer our wealth to China and India. We have created this incredible demand for oil over there. It is our fault.

Drill, drill, drill just keeps us captive's of big oil for longer. But the problem will not go away. 1-2 million barrels a day won't even make a dent.

Think about it this way, we are the only country that is not exploring its oil resorces. So if we do, and we add our little 1-2 million barrels to the GROWING world demand, the whole wopping 1-2% of supply increase is very close to meanless.

More crack doesn't cure someones addiction to crack.

And about our oil shale in the rockies, what are we going to do, strip mine the rocky mountians? That is rediculous. I don't want to visit the rockies or fly over head and see it turned into a bunch of mines. quote]

Have you seen where the ANWR is? It's already a wasteland. Not that drilling in 2000 of the 19,000,000 acres makes much of an impact. You are playing into the hand of the people that are against energy independence at all costs. It's obvious that you've taken on a defeatist attitude as the Democrats have. This country can do anything it wants, but only if people have the will.[/
 
The republicans had control of the house, senate, and white house for 6 straight years, and you mention ONE vote in 2000? Ya gotta have 60 votes in the Senate pass anything. Civics 101 my dear. What were they doing about it for the next 60 MONTHS? How about the entire time the Dems controlled Congress, zero.

Money is pouring into oil futures to for various reasons i.e. hedge against inflation, money coming out of the free-falling mortgage market (both results of poor government oversight over the past 7 years). The falling dollar (thank you Iraq war!) is only exacerbating things.

The incompetence of the Bush administration is nothing short of staggering. They put us in this situation. Blaming a congress who has been in control (with the opposition party in the white house)for 18 months is pathetic.

That dastardly GW Bush, he's a bad King! Whaa! First it was the hurricanes, now it's oil and the war! I seem to remember many, many Dems voted for the way, then politicized it. Disgusting group!
 
Those who oppose new sources of oil generally complain it 'takes too long' or 'isn't enough' to curb prices. Yet at the same time, they are the same people who believe high prices are a good thing. Pick a position - only one please.
 
Expanded nuclear should be a part of any energy plan but this notion floating around that it's "proven and profitable" technology is a stretch. Nuclear has been heavily subsidized for R&D(and we're not talking about the manhattan project), operating costs, and has liability caps in place. The liability caps mean that if a plant goes all Chernobyl the plant is only responsible for a limited amount of damages no matter how bad the carnage. This saves hundreds of millions if not billions of dollars in insurance payments over time.

If wind and solar had been as heavily subsidized as nuclear we might already have "proven and profitable" technology by now.

How about France? They get 80% of their electricity from nuclear power and have never had an accident. Chernobyl was a Russian plant that was nowhere near meeting western safety standards.
 
Show me the republican estimates of how much lower oil and gas would be if we produce the 1 million barrels a day from ANWR.

Also, show me the estimates of how much oil and gas will go down when we add 1 million barrels a day from the OCS.

I didn't think so.

None of the oil men or the republicans (I am not sure if there is a difference between them) have quantified the savings. At all.

1-2 million barrels a day added to world supply is less than 2-3% increase. It is very small. 3% of 4.00 dollars a gallon is .12 cents. Add in alittle for speculation, lets say double, .24 cents. Holy cow, look at all the money I just saved.

Give me a break. Oil men in the whitehouse, a war that drives up demand and destabilizes the region, a trade policy that grows the third world like a weed and increases their demand for oil? Yeah its the Dems.


Put another way, So the US is the only country not increasing its drilling. And because of that, the WHOLE world is paying ALLOT more for oil. But there supposedly is SO much oil out there. So our little failure to add 2-3% of world production is causing the shole world to pay record oil prices. Keep in mind, that every other country is free to drill, drill, drill as much as they want and anywhere they want outside of the US, yet still our 2-3% is the cause?

Get real. Use some common sense.
 
Also, like I said before, W himself said recently in a speach that oil from ANWR would "likely" reduce the price of oil.

The oil man president himself didn't even guarantee that ANWR would lower the price of oil.

How about you borrow me a thousand dollars and I will "likely" pay you back. Tell me when the check is in the mail.
 

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